child abuse?

Subject: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:19 pm

There is one scene at the beginning of "The Family Tree" where Albert's friend Simon gets whipped by his Pa for not coming straight home after school like he was told. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call this abuse since he was not actually injuring the child, but I did think he came down kind of hard on Simon. I counted at least 27 lashings with the belt. What's worse, Simon's clothes were sopping wet which must have made it hurt even worse, plus it would have been humiliating for this to happen in front of his friend. On the other hand, it probably did teach Simon something about being responsible so maybe some good came out of it. I kind of wish they'd shown Simon later in the episode so we could see how he was holding up after that experience and what effect it had on his friendship with Albert. I was just wondering if anyone else thought this was bordering on abuse.

Subject: Re: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:00 pm

Yeah, I find it a little too much for a parent to whip someone 27 times while the child's clothes are wet... that parent needs to control himself

I remember the scene you are talking about... I don't remember how hard he was hitting him though... but still.. 27 times??
_________________

Subject: Re: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:03 pm

I agree.
_________________

Lindsay Crouse in Lemon Sky

Subject: Re: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:03 pm

What I think is important to remember is that the show takes place in the late 1800's when corporal punishment was considered the normal way to discipline a child. There's actually an episode of Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman which deals with this topic rather well. "Just One Lullaby" from Season 2 tells the story of a teacher--the ex-fiancee of Reverend Thomas--who is hired to teach in Colorado Springs.

She uses corporal punishment for discipline and actually bruises some of the students. One of the older boys ends up beating her severely. But before that incident, a town meeting was held and many parents supported her use of corporal punishment to keep order in the classroom.

Nowadays, such behavior would get you arrested, but it was not seen as a problem back then.

Cheryl
_________________
All my life, I wanted to be like you - Laura to Ma in The Last Farewell

Subject: Re: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:37 pm

This was a normal thing and it is not good to show an historical era different than it really was only for "politically correct" reasons.

My grandpa told me that he has been disciplined in this very way and that he is grateful to his father. He loves his father (now deceased), never considered himself an "abused child" and he is not a violent person, not supporter of any violence, wars and such. Of course, my great grandpa (a great man, I knew him) only punished him when he misbehaved, and not everyday. Actually he didn't enjoy punishing his child.

Vanesa.
_________________

Subject: Re: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:50 pm

My mom went to Catholic school, she had told me some of the punishment by the nuns are totally unacceptable nowadays. But, it WAS acceptable back then. If you misbehaved, you would get a whip.
_________________

"Within the heart of every stray, lies the singular desire to be loved."

Subject: Re: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:13 pm

Subject: Re: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:33 pm

Subject: Re: child abuse? Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:08 pm

One nun in our school put a kid up against the wall by his throat. She amazingly was sent to a retirement home soon after. Gee, I wonder why?
_________________
All my life, I wanted to be like you - Laura to Ma in The Last Farewell

Subject: Re: child abuse? Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:48 am

Oh my goodness Cheryl, really?!?! OhMy

Scary. And I love the epie you're referring to in Dr. Quinn...that was really a wonderful comment on child abuse. The story that the reverend tells is beautiful. I wish I could find it online somewhere...I'd post it here.

Wow, 27 times?!?! I do remember that scene...and feeling SO sorry for that boy. Reminds me of Albert playing Pa when the teacher comes to whip him. His father stopped the teacher after what...4 times? And said, "more than enough".

I agree with the others though...this is just 'what was done' back then. You know, even my mom (who was a very 'good' child) was spanked with a belt as a child...nowadays that would be considered abuse, but back then it just wasn't. I asked her once, "Mom, do you realize you were an abused child?" Her response was, "Oh, no that wasn't abuse." I asked her if she would ever have done that to us girls, and she was appalled, thinking about it that way. Of course she couldn't even fathom the idea of that. In some ways, things were better back in 'the old days', but in other ways, society has come very far in a positive way. There is still child abuse, of course, but it's tolerated or accepted now in the way that it was then.
_________________

Frontier Traveler Joined : 26 Feb 2007 Posts : 393 Mood :

That part of the episode did seem extreme but they were also doing a flashback of Albert being in an orphanage and the abuse he put up with....If children were disciplined back then, I would have to think the majority of the children were disciplined when they misbehaved but not spanked or hit with a belt as a regular way of life ..

As far as the nuns in private schools, my mother went to a Catholic school and they did use various forms of discipline that might be considered unacceptable now, but then again, I don't recall hearing of too many school shootings, drug use and a basic lack of respect back then either...my father went to school in the 50's and he said the worst things kids got into back then was smoking cigarettes in the bathrooms.
_________________

Subject: Re: child abuse? Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:28 pm

Subject: Re: child abuse? Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:51 am

Well That was in the 1800 they whip there children whenever and whereever they wanted and they were more strick the too
_________________

Subject: Re: child abuse? Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:43 pm

Now a days the kids would hit the teachers.

Way back in probably the 40's or 50's my dad's brother beat the crap out of a teacher for hitting my dad because he asked to go to the bathroom. That teacher never messed with my dad again, lol. My uncle is a pretty big dude and the teacher was very small. When I was in the 8th grade our principal (a nun) slammed this dude up against the chalk board and got away with it.

Beckie
_________________
The only opinion about you that counts is your own.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Subject: Re: child abuse? Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:00 pm

My 2nd grade teacher in El Salvador once hit me on the palm of my hand with a ruler... my PE coach in that same school was a mean cranky old man... He would make us form a line before taking us to the park in the hot sun and if one of our legs stuck out from the line, he would hit it w/ this thick rope he used to have.

We would run in the hot sun and I remember our faces getting red. I mean... we were 7 year olds and he treated us like we were in some kind of a drill team or something. He had a short temper and would pick up a kid and scream at him if he didn't complete the course. I told my mom how he was.... My mom knew him and one time during PE Class, my mom walked to the park and took me out of the class :P
_________________

Subject: Re: child abuse? Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:30 pm

Subject: Re: child abuse? Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:58 pm

wow! i used to get spanked when i was younger but now i get grounded. in a way its getting punished but then again its sorta abuse becase he shouldn't have hit him that many times

but if he lived right now he would've been in jail.
_________________

What do you call a life that is nothing but hockey? I call it time well spent.
There are a lot of things in the game I don't control. But then again there are some things that I do.
~*Sidney Crosby*~

Subject: Re: child abuse? Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:32 am

ouchy.I agree with beacky now a days for sure the kids would more likely hit the teacher's... I'am glad that hiting rule doesn't happend anymore in school..But in one why thats a good why to scare kids from geting into trouble in the first place..

I don't even think spanking kids really helps or teaches the kids anything when they are bad./

Subject: Re: child abuse? Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:48 am

I am glad they don't do that anymore either. If a teacher hit my kid now and my kid hit the teacher back, I would not be mad at my child. I would want my children to defend themselves. Even if they were bullied. And then I would sue the crap out of the school.

Beckie
_________________
The only opinion about you that counts is your own.

Subject: Re: child abuse? Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:10 am

I went to a convent school and never witnessed any physical punishments at all so I guess not all nuns were bad.

And hey! Pa wasn't a stranger to giving out the odd whipping either! In the very first of LIW books, Little House in the Big Woods, I remember reading that he whipped Laura for something. I think it was something about her being noisy on the Sabbath if my memory serves me right.
_________________

"To change your life takes a lot of courage and energy. It's not for wimps." Karen Grassle. April 2006

Subject: Re: child abuse? Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:03 am

I dont think it was abuse, personally, since whipping was often used as a punishment around that time. but I have to agree, it was probably embarassing for Simon to be whipped in front of his friend. but I do still love this episode because Albert is adopted!!