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 Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?

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dolly
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PostSubject: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:32 am

If he intended on whipping her, then why not take her directly to the barn or at least outside? There is no privacy in the loft. I think at first that Charles really did plan to whip her and only decided not to after hearing her explanation. Do you think he usually whipped the kids in the loft or in the barn?


Last edited by dolly on Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Davetucson
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:37 pm

I would like to hear about any scene in Little House where Laura was physically disciplined other than when she was slapped when Edwards was trying to shoot himself.....


"Albert, do you REALLY think you are old enough to know what love is?"
"I must be Pa. I love you, I have for a long time."


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dolly
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:23 pm

I cannot recall Laura being whipped in an actual episode, but in "Be My Friend" Charles says that it has been a long time since he has given her a whipping. So, he had definitely whipped her before at some point in the past.

And yes, Charles never disciplined Mary nor was it ever alluded to that it had happened in the past. That goes for Albert too. Sure, he yelled at Albert sometimes, but there never was a punishment.

Carrie did appear to be slow to me.

As for Grace, he already had so many kids by then that he didn't have a lot of time for her.

As far as I can tell, Laura was the only child to have actually been punished by Charles. Just wondering why this would be. And, I would hope he would whip her in the barn because everyone could hear if he did it in the loft, which would be unfair to Laura.
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Davetucson
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:31 pm

Well, there's only one way to get to the bottom of this question......Want me to ask Matt Labyorteaux? He could answer it from Season Five on if you wish...............


"Albert, do you REALLY think you are old enough to know what love is?"
"I must be Pa. I love you, I have for a long time."
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dolly
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:11 pm

Sure, I love to get the actors' thoughts into plotlines and characters!!
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Gin
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:02 pm

First off, this forum is one that respects and recognizes the  actors/ characters that are portrayed in the books/ and show.  Since you mentioned Carrie, I will comment on her. Carrie was a real person and deserves the respect I think Laura would certainly want her to have.  She adored her little sister and we have an  example of that in "Little Town on the Prairie" chapter: Sent Home from School.   As far as the accomplishments of Carrie in later years please do research, she was quite a woman of her time.  

The show's Carrie portrayed by Lindsey/ Sidney Greenbush was very much a pillar in the Ingalls family.  She was simply a child, and one that had few lines but I think her physical cuteness was what Michael Landon was wanting on film.  As she grew, the show changed, slowness is not what  I witnessed in her.  There were scenes where she was very caring toward Cassandra and helpful to Ma.   I do wish we had more of her true life experiences on the show, but the years didn't give us that.  So, in that, I think we need to respect what we do know and not let our opinions of how she seemed as a child actress stain her image.  
   
As far as Pa not disciplining Laura, he was fair.  He knew there were times to whip a child and those when there weren't.   I don't think we needed a constant episode of him whipping his children to know how he was the leader of his home.   Pa was portrayed in the books the same way.  Don't forget in the books this was Laura's story, as told from her experiences.  Melissa Gilbert often narrated in the show to give the same effect.    I believe each child had a storyline that brought forth discipline from Pa in different ways.   I instantly think of Pa's challenge to catch Albert sifting through that shoe for more morphine.  Pa had to show control and discipline in dealing with what he knew to be a real problem for his son.  
     
We share opinions here, but not at the cost of hurting those actors/ or real Ingalls that have shared their time, and lives with us.   They have all given us a gift so let's remember to show our respect.




It is the lack of Christianity that has brought us where we are. Not a lack of churches or religious forms but of the real thing in our hearts. LIW.....Words From a Fearless Heart
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Savannah
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:23 pm

Applause Well said, Gin!
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:53 pm

I agree! Goodpost



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bethandmanly
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:28 pm

Ditto.


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dolly
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:16 pm

Okay, I edited it. My only question was why wouldn't Charles do the whipping in the barn or outside to provide some privacy?
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:21 pm

He probably did do the disciplining in the barn, or out behind the barn.  Perhaps telling her to go to the loft, was a way for him to cool off some before any disciplining started. Having raised 3 boys of my own, you need to check your temper before you discipline your child.  Too many get carried away when tempers flare. Charles treated all his children equally, so I am sure they all had their share of disciplining.   Thumbsup



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Davetucson
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Well, I'm not sure about Charles, but there was never any doubt about where Nels carried it out....Upstairs!



"Albert, do you REALLY think you are old enough to know what love is?"
"I must be Pa. I love you, I have for a long time."
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littlehouselover
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:10 pm

Poor Nels, he was at his wits end. Goes to show though, if you have to hit more than once or twice, it doesn't work. Nelly would have hated being grounded without her toys/candy more. ; )
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:16 pm

littlehouselover wrote:
Poor Nels, he was at his wits end. Goes to show though, if you have to hit more than once or twice, it doesn't work. Nelly would have hated being grounded without her toys/candy more. ; )

Harriet would have none of that!


"Albert, do you REALLY think you are old enough to know what love is?"
"I must be Pa. I love you, I have for a long time."
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dolly
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:34 pm

Yep, Nels used a belt!! Do you think Charles used a belt too?
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:45 pm

Laura got slapped on the palm of her hand by Mr.Applewood. Charles did get mad at Laura, Albert and James a few times, but never did whip them. He did tell Laura her puinshment for the bucket of paint getting dumped on his head was extra chores and sitting in the loft to read the bible until his hair was back to normal. The only time I remember him snapping at Mary was when he made her admit she wanted her eye sight back for herself and not Adam.
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Davetucson
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:56 pm

Rhonda and I came up with six great examples of punishment without being physical. When Charles and Caroline spoke, they listened.......................







"Albert, do you REALLY think you are old enough to know what love is?"
"I must be Pa. I love you, I have for a long time."
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dolly
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:07 pm

Yes, those are great examples! Discipline doesn't always have to be physical. In fact, physical punishment should be a rare thing anyway. We know that Charles *did* whip Laura in the past though because he said he did. I just wonder how harsh he was when he did it. I wonder if he used a belt like Nels or just his hand?
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:04 pm

To be honest. Not sure i agree with physical punishment. But maybe for some children they need it when being bad.


“Tomorrow is a new day with no mistakes in it... Yet.” ― L.M. Montgomery, Anne of Green Gables
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:05 pm

Charles and Caroline sure let it be known to the children not to raise their voice at them. In the pilot movie, Charles yelled at Laura for wanting to untie Jack after he told not to and told her to never go against an order he gives her again. Caroline then got mad at Charles telling him there was no need in being so harsh with Laura.
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littlehouselover
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:14 pm

I don't think it works if it's repeated over and over, year after year. It's easier though for many parents.
Charles to my memory only hit Laura once in the books, and Michael Landon seemed to make the really mean people hit like the new teacher, etc. Nels did, but most people wanted to pummel Nellie so he was safe there. lol
I thought Mary did deserve to be punished for the barn fire, not hit, but grounded home or missing exam, something. I thought Caroline was overly sympathetic for the times. Mary could have done a lot of damage. Laura pushed the envelope a bit too but got away with things. I think overall the Ingall's were very kind.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:30 pm

littlehouselover wrote:
Nels did, but most people wanted to pummel Nellie so he was safe there. lol

Laughing Well put! I'm sure that even the most staunch pacifists were thinking, "Yeah! Get her! Use the belt!" HeeHee
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Krissy
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:09 pm

littlehouselover wrote:
I don't think it works if it's repeated over and over, year after year. It's easier though for many parents.
Charles to my memory only hit Laura once in the books, and Michael Landon seemed to make the really mean people hit like the new teacher, etc. Nels did, but most people wanted to pummel Nellie so he was safe there. lol
I thought Mary did deserve to be punished for the barn fire, not hit, but grounded home or missing exam, something. I thought Caroline was overly sympathetic for the times. Mary could have done a lot of damage. Laura pushed the envelope a bit too but got away with things. I think overall the Ingall's were very kind.

Agree!
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dolly
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:11 pm

I think Little House did a great job of showing the difference between discipline and abuse when it comes to physical punishment. Little House depicts quite a lot of physical punishment. Some is simply discipline. The other is abuse. And, it is easy to see the difference.

When Nels disciplined Nellie, I always saw that as simply discipline. A father disciplining his daughter when it was needed. Sure, he used a belt, and the belt gets such a bad rap. However, I don't see using a belt per se as abuse. Although it didn't show the whipping, I wouldn't think that Nels did much more than give her a few good whacks on the seat of her dress. Anyone else think different?

On the other hand, in "Child of Pain", Graham's drunken father beat him with a belt. He hit him super hard, multiple times across the back and left serious bruises. There is no way Nels did that to Nellie. Both fathers used a belt but in very different ways. Nels would never hurt his children.

In the case of the adopted father that whipped James, that whipping was not only unjust but was also given out of hate and resentment. Clearly child abuse. By contrast, when Johnathan takes Andy to the barn for a whipping it was done by a loving parent.

In "I Remember, I Remember", young Charles is thrashed quite a few times. When his teacher does it the first few times, it is clearly abuse because he is doing it unjustly. However, the last time, the one were Charles' father witnesses it, it is brief and not abusive.

As far as how Charles utilized physical discipline, we never see him do it. In the books, he used a strap on Laura once. We know that TV Charles did in fact whip TV Laura also, but I don't know whether it was with a strap or simply with his hand. I see TV Charles maybe just using his hand. It would certainly have been firm enough!! Even if he did use a strap or a belt though, I'm sure his discipline would have been something on the same order as Nels gave Nellie. Nothing harsh, just enough to smart pretty good and teach the lesson. What do you all think?
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PostSubject: Re: Why would Charles order Laura to go to the loft?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:36 pm

I see your point, Never thought about it like that before.


“Tomorrow is a new day with no mistakes in it... Yet.” ― L.M. Montgomery, Anne of Green Gables
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