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Carol
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:48 am

I've liked Michael for a long time even after the first time he got accused.... because I didn't know what to believe.... I kept thinking how crazy his childhood was and how he lived in this bubble and didn't really know how to act... he didn't have friends or true friends that would dare to slap "the king of pop" and nock some sense into him or something.... lol I mean... making him stop inviting kids over to the ranch because sooner or later something would happen... that and other stuff...
He seemed very lonely to me even though fans fainted when going to his concerts....

And the reason why he changed his face/nose... was because he was messed up in the head or traumatized from the names his own family or friends called him, making fun of his appearance or nose.... etc...... some words are very strong and hurt more than physical pain... they damage...
It also doesn't help that a lot of people (I'm not talking about anyone here... just people in general) like to bash him constantly without knowing the facts... they go based on what they read on tabloids who make up or twist the truth around in order to sell their stories and they feed off the hollywood gossip shows...
I am not saying that he did or did not molest anyone... I do not know, I wasn't there... all I know is that I have seen many interviews of him saying how he was examined, humiliated, etc... I have NOT seen the boys' fathers coming out in the media to defend their child in front of everyone. I have seen how some programs or interviews make him look like a molestor. This guy even gave him a weird look for climbing a tree! I forgot what the question was but Michael started goofing around and decided to climb a tree and the stupid reporter started looking at him all weird and stuff making Michael look like something was wrong with him. Also people tend to forget that there were several accusations that were admited to be false, where they admited they lied, that they just wanted to go for his money... but of course... that news media did not want to make a lot of coverage on that. If it's not about the child molestation... it's about his appearance.... his nose... his skin color... why did he go white? Etc... I personally know a woman who has that same skin pigmintation problem... her skin is white and brown and said if she could... she would like to do something to even her skin color... but Michael having the money and being in front of cameras all day long probably started wearing makeup or did something to even out his color or something.... I don't see what the big deal is...

Michael may have his weird ways and all but I will say that I have not seen anyone have better dance choreography than him... some his dance moves.... nobody can do better... He also co-wrote "We Are The World" back in the 80s which was an awesome song... which raised over $63 million for famine relief. He's raised other millions of dollars and donated more money to charities, he's given gifts to many people. He has visited hundreds of orphanages and hospitals all around the world during tours, to help the children. He started his own charity, The Heal The World Foundation which supported dozens of other children's charities and programs in 20 countries. For instance: Heal the World joined with AmeriCares to ship 47 tons of food, clothing and medical supplies to children of war-torn Sarajevo; partnered with the Gorbachev Foundation (USA) to deliver 60,000 doses of children's vaccines to the Republic of Georgia and has twice assisted the U.K. based Operation Christmas Child to airlift supplies and gifts collected by children in the U.K. to give to children in Bosnia.. He's been listed in the Guiness Book Of World Records for breaking the world record for the "Most Charities Supported By a Pop Star. He also helped fight AIDS in Africa.

Sadly though ... people forget and he gets labeled as "the freak".

Type Okay, I'm done with my essay now. LOL


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:10 pm

I think Mikey's biggest problem is that he doesn't understand he's an adult now, and adults have to live be different rules than children. I think he never grew up.

As to the allegations of molestation, I do have to wonder. I wouldn't let MY child stay with him, that's for sure.

Yes, he had talent. He was the big thing in the 80's, although he never made a cent off me. Something about him rubbed me the wrong way, and I can't put my finger on it. As to him being found innocent, twice, to charges of molestation, well, just look at OJ. Money can buy a lot. And the fact that he bought off the first case makes me wonder what he was trying to hide. And using women to manufacture his own little family sans mothers? That's just a tad odd in my book. You never saw him in a stable relationship. Ever. Just using women as babymakers and then tossing them out.

Yes, Michael had it rough growing up. Joe pushed them hard. But one has to learn to overcome such things. Michael didn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:34 pm

It is true that he should have more adult friends and all... but like I said... the way he grew up... he missed out on a lot and had his childhood late in life... I agree that it's great that he likes kids... but also he has to have adult friends... but his life is so chaotic... I'm sure he does have adults friends... again... the media will blow things out of proportion and really make him look mental. Sometimes... there is nothing wrong being a kid at heart...

As far as the child molestation case... if that boy's father thought that Michael Jackson molested his child ... do you honestly think he would have just accepted money from Michael Jackson and settled out of court?? If I actually thought that someone abused my child I'd do everything in my power to see that person behind bars in prison for as long as possible and make sure they had a record that would follow them wherever they went. No amount of money would make me settle out of court if it was my child involved. I can understand from Michael Jackson's perspective why he paid the guy off, because he wanted to avoid a whole long drawn out trial where he probably would have been ripped to shreds even more so by the media...and who knows what the outcome might have been. But the fact is a lot of celebrities do end up settling out of court to avoid being further dragged thru the mud and have to endure really long court battles. That doesn't always mean a person is guilty.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:58 pm

True, but when faced with the decision of a guy only getting 5 years, or worse, getting off with good lawyers, sometimes you have to go for the sure win. A payoff is a sure win. You hit him in the pocketbook. You can use the money to help get your child counselling and to help him have the finest of eveerything, so maybe he can forget.

Yes, tabloids blow things out of proportion, but where there's smoke there's fire. Having a sleepover or pajama party with a young child at 40+ years old is abnormal behavior that should be dealt with. Could you imagine ME doing it? Or any other male for that matter? No, it's abnormal. Whether molesting took place or not, he shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place.

The Bible says "When I was a child I spoke as a child. When I grew up, I put away childish things" (paraphrased). Michael needs help, seriously. Molestation or no, having been in that situation was wrong, period. PLUS, he has children of his own to think about now. You can't continue to live as a child when you have children of your own. You're not their buddy, you're their parent. Big difference. I have no doubt he's a good father now, but what about when they hit their teens? His childish ways are going to be a hindrance.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:46 pm

I completely agree that his behavior as to sharing a bed with kids was not really appropriate. It could have been innocent specially if it was several people in his room (which is huge) but it is not something he should have done and I think he has learned that lesson the hardest way possible. I don’t think he has had sleepovers like that anymore.

flatbroke wrote:
A payoff is a sure win. You hit him in the pocketbook. You can use the money to help get your child counselling and to help him have the finest of eveerything, so maybe he can forget

Here are some interesting things about the typical father who you say would take the money to help his child and get the finest of everything….

In 1993, Chandler (the boy’s father) urged the entertainer to spend more time with his son at his house. According to sources, Chandler even suggested that Jackson build an addition onto the house so the singer could stay there. After calling the zoning department and discovering it couldn't be done, Chandler made another suggestion -- that Jackson just build him a new home. Huh? lol

It was reported that the father started getting upset with Michael because he was sort of being ‘left out’ or something…. One time, this guy secretly taped a conversation he had with Chandler and these were the words from Chandler’s mouth:

"It's already set," Chandler told Schwartz. "There are other people involved that are waiting for my phone call that are in certain positions. I've paid them to do it. Everything's going according to a certain plan that isn't just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy [his attorney, Barry K. Rothman, presumably] is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. And I've given him full authority to do that. And if I go through with this, I win big-time. There's no way I lose. I've checked that inside out. I will get everything I want, and they will be destroyed forever. June will lose custody of my son and Michael's career will be over."

On the other boy’s case (Gauvin):

Gavin, who had leukaemia and met Jackson about 18 months ago as a "last wish" granted to terminally ill children, appeared in the controversial documentary by British journalist Martin Bashir.

Jackson's lawyers knew that Ms Arvizo, who had been living at Jackson's Neverland ranch with Gavin and his two elder siblings and had received money and gifts, including a car, from the entertainer, pressured her son to assert Jackson had had improper relations with him only after she learned that Jackson would be cutting her off financially

Gavin's father David Arvizo planned to take his estranged wife to court to reclaim custody of Gavin, alleging she was an unfit mother and "crazy" to allow the boy to sleep with Jackson. However, court documents show Mr Arvizo, who was arrested and charged with beating his wife, was also charged with nine counts of cruelty against his children.

Legal analysts said if he managed to be granted custody, he could receive a payout as part of any civil case brought against Jackson. Chandler's estranged parents were paid $US1 million to $US2 million each under their son's settlement, according to news reports and believe me… I doubt those millions of dollars were just used for “counseling”. :shifty:

Also Gavin’s brothers were reported to have told 3 versions of several incidents…. Their stories didn’t match up… if someone is speaking the truth… the story should remain solid

On another case…

Michael Jackson's lawyers presented evidence to the court that the mother of his teenage accuser has a history of making false accusations about sexual assaults. It will also claim that she has coached him to make false allegations.

Accuser’s mother had a previous case against JC Penney. In that case the mother claimed that she was beaten and sexually assaulted by JC Penney security guards following a scuffle that broke out when her son - then seven - was accused of shoplifting. The family sued the clothing store and eventually received a settlement of $137,500.

A witness testified that the woman lied under oath and fabricated the charges against the JC Penney security guards. She further alleged that the bruises suffered by the woman were not inflicted by the guards but by someone else.

The lawyer also said the woman had hid assets from the settlement to get welfare payments from Los Angeles County and that she even had her son ask celebrities such as TV comedian Jay Leno for money. She then spent some of the money on cosmetic surgery. :bash:

--------
There hasn’t been a solid case of the molestations and they get dismissed… but I am sure the local businesses get happy when he has trials, as well as hotels, restaurants nearby… it’s a huge profit for them.
Again… I’m not saying he's innocent or guilty… I just don’t know… But you have to look at both sides of the story…. and it’s funny that a lot of these statements made by the kids who say Michael abused them… later turn around and say that he didn’t. Huh?


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:58 pm

Well, as far as MJ is concerned I, too, liked his early music (yes, I even bought the "Thriller" album") but after all that, I really haven't paid much attention to him. Just whatever was on tv being reported. That couldn't be avoided; it was everywhere (like Britt) but I didn't go out of my way to keep up with what was going on with him.

As far as child abuse allegations; I don't know. I always leaned towards it being true...but I don't know. There are lots of celebrity kids that grew up in the spotlight, had abusive parents, but they turned our as regular human beings. Some didn't, granted, but I don't think that is why he is the way he is. Why is he like that? I haven't a clue.

Maybe if his life wasn't so strange (wives, kids, etc.) I would say no, he didn't do all that stuff.

I just don't know...



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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:37 pm

Misti wrote:
Well, as far as MJ is concerned I, too, liked his early music (yes, I even bought the "Thriller" album") but after all that, I really haven't paid much attention to him. Just whatever was on tv being reported. That couldn't be avoided; it was everywhere (like Britt) but I didn't go out of my way to keep up with what was going on with him.

And if I remember ... a lot of the press and media were already convicting Michael of being guilty without the trial starting...

I have seen/witnessed/experienced first hand how the media does not always tell the truth and how they twist things and make things appear differently than how they really are.

Below is a paragraph I copied from this girl who talks about how a reporter twisted things around to make Michael look like a dangerous person. I remember seeing his interview and remember shaking my head at how the reporter acted. I also remember seeing the other unedited footage that was aired after the first interview .... you can also find those on youtube.

----------

"Now let’s take a look at sensationalist journalism and a reporter’s ability to twist the truth. Martin Bashir, the reporter responsible for that famous documentary, promised Michael a fair and unbiased story on his lifestyle. Michael took him in, got to know him, befriended him, and trusted him for a very long time. In return, Bashir took advantage of Michael’s trust by promising him a fair and balanced documentary that would help the public see Michael for the 'caring and kind' individual that he really is. But Bashir did not deliver on that promise. Unfortunately for Michael, he chose the wrong reporter to trust. Much to his surprise and dismay, Michael and the world watched in shock as the real documentary 'Living With Michael Jackson' aired on ABC. It was quite opposite from what Bashir promised. Instead of achieving a fair point of view and benefiting Michael, Bashir used the tactics of false journalism and editing techniques to make Michael look completely out of control and strange. Through his biased narration, he is heard saying things such as 'how strange Michael is', or 'I began to worry about his children', to make the documentary take a very negative spin and brainwash the American audience into thinking he is an unstable man. However, in private, Bashir was heard telling Michael the opposite things!

Michael also hired his own video crew to tape the events and happenings of the interview (smart man). And this footage was aired in another documentary aired on FOX which defended Michael and revealed Bashir’s two faces. Hosted by talk show host Maury Povich, this documentary aired a few days later and revealed the real story behind the Bashir interview. In the footage, Bashir praises Michael's relationship with his children. He says to Michael "Your relationship with your children is spectacular. It almost makes me weep when I see you with them because your interaction with them is just so natural, so loving, so caring." This is quite opposite from the story he aired on his documentary, where he attempted to make Michael look like a bad father. The truth is, Bashir took advantage of Michael’s trust and betrayed it by twisting the story to make him look like a monster.

Journalism is supposed to be fair and balanced, and Bashir is neither of these things. Whether he has a personal vendetta against Michael or his motive is fifteen minutes of fame and a quick buck, he is a two-faced reporter who abused Michael’s trust in order to increase the size of his paycheck. What he did was completely despicable and his tactics were low and dirty. He is a shameful representation of real journalism, and fortunately for us, we now know the real story behind that biased documentary and Bashir’s unrealistic portrayal of Michael."

-----------------

Also... people sometimes have this picture of the boys being molested as sweet and innocent little kids.... well, that's not really the case. They are also grown teenagers and know very well what is right and wrong. In the case of Gavin.... he was known to be roudy and he and his siblings would be all over Michael's house and also checking out some pornographic sites on a computer. They don't sound so innocent now do they?

In that case... Gavin said that Michael showed him a pornographic magazine.
The boys were able to tell investigators where Jackson kept his stash of pornography.

Well... these facts are also interesting:

• The porn magazine with the accuser's fingerprints was not tested for prints until after the boy handled the magazine at a grand jury proceedings in April 2004. (Link)

• The defense claims that the boys went into Jackson's room when he was not there and looked at the magazines on their own. In support of this theory, Star Arvizo testified that he knew the code to get into Jackson's bedroom (see testimony of Star Arvizo, pg. 15).

• Jackson's defense attorney revealed that the magazine that Jackson had supposedly shown Star Arvizo and his brother, was actually released in August 2003 - five months after the Arvizos had left the ranch for the last time. (Link)

• In his grand jury testimony in April 2004, Star Arvizo testified that he and his brother had once surfed porn sites.

----------------------

Anyway.... I'm not saying believe Michael 100%.... it's just that I've been a fan so I liked to give him the benefit of the doubt and sort of felt he was innocent until proven guilty.... I'm just stating the facts that would be stated for Michael's defense since... not too many people are aware of.

I feel like I'm an attorney in a courtroom... Laughing

Lastly I'd like to post a video of a side of Michael that people tend to dismiss...





Last edited by Carol on Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:55 pm

LOL, Carol! If Judge Judy ever steps down...you'd be perfect (I love her!!) grinsmiley :CoolSign:



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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:08 am

flatbroke wrote:
I think Mikey's biggest problem is that he doesn't understand he's an adult now, and adults have to live be different rules than children. I think he never grew up.

As to the allegations of molestation, I do have to wonder. I wouldn't let MY child stay with him, that's for sure.

Yes, he had talent. He was the big thing in the 80's, although he never made a cent off me. Something about him rubbed me the wrong way, and I can't put my finger on it. As to him being found innocent, twice, to charges of molestation, well, just look at OJ. Money can buy a lot. And the fact that he bought off the first case makes me wonder what he was trying to hide. And using women to manufacture his own little family sans mothers? That's just a tad odd in my book. You never saw him in a stable relationship. Ever. Just using women as babymakers and then tossing them out.

Yes, Michael had it rough growing up. Joe pushed them hard. But one has to learn to overcome such things. Michael didn't.


I agree almost completely Larry. I say 'almost' because he DID make $$ off of me! grinsmiley I had Thriller and a couple of other earlier 'tapes' (LOL!), and really was a fan. I definitely saw his talent at a young age and was somewhat in awe of him. I was glued to my tv during the Oprah interview, the Bashir thing, and the Michael retailiation. Like you Carol, I want to believe that Michael is a good guy, I've always wanted to. I know that Oprah wanted to too, but she's even made comments about him in more recent years. And you know what? I don't doubt for a minute he has a big heart, one of the biggest...it's undeniable from the generosity he's displayed in the past. I believe the good he has done for children is from the heart, but I also think he is a man with BIG problems, and that his 'fascination' with children is not normal and I do think it is very possible and even highly likely that he's guilty. I want to believe that he doesn't have that in him, but I truly think he's mentally 'off' and is capable. JMO!

Just as a side note...a few of my favorite songs of Michaels are the one you have in your video, Man in the Mirror, and I always loved Ben! Thumbsup


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:55 am

Carol, I can't refute your argument, so we'll just agree to disagree. When it comes down to it, without first hand evidence, everything we have is heresay. I just believe a man his age should have known better than to put himself in that position, but then, MJ doesn't THINK like a man his age, because he's never had the chance to be a normal person like you or I.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:22 pm

Amy wrote:
but I also think he is a man with BIG problems, and that his 'fascination' with children is not normal and I do think it is very possible and even highly likely that he's guilty. I want to believe that he doesn't have that in him, but I truly think he's mentally 'off' and is capable

I agree that he has big problems... but what do you do if there is no evidence found? The truth is either in Michael's side or the boy's side... and the reason I'm leaning a little more towards his innocence is because of the evidence in favor of Michael... Tom Sneddon... the attorney who seems to have it against Michael was shown really happy and with a smile that almost stretched his face permanently when Michael was taken to jail... that attorney even wanted to show the court the photo they took of michael's genitals... and of course he was denied to do so.... it just seems to me that he really wants to humiliate him or something....
As far as him being capable because he looks a bit off.... actually anybody is capable... from the strange looking to the perfectly well groomed 'family man'.

flatbroke wrote:
I just believe a man his age should have known better than to put himself in that position, but then, MJ doesn't THINK like a man his age, because he's never had the chance to be a normal person like you or I.

I very much agree with you on this. Even though I lean a little more towards him not being guilty... like I said,... I am not 100% sure of this... I'm more 80%-30%... but I do agree he does things that he should not do. When he was little (6, 7 yrs old) he would be exposed to nude girls at clubs where he used to play at.... he was exposed to his brothers having sexual relations while being in the same room... when he was a teenager... he was sent to a hotel room and girl was sent there in order for him to have sex with her.... yeah... it just messed him up I think...
I am sure that he has learned his lesson now though.... I'm sure friends and he himself is learning that you can't put yourself in those positions with kids ...

I don't think there is anything wrong with him liking children.... I don't see anything wrong with him wanting to have fun with them. I just hope he does things out in the open with a bunch of people around... and not this 'sleepover' stuff...


It does make me sad that he does have some issues .... and hopefully he can get the help he needs....


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:40 pm

I'm sorry, but I feel he has issues. He didn't have to have all of the surgeries he did. Some of what has happened to him, he did to himself. That is just my opinion, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise.

I can't think of all of his behavior issues that come to mind, but the main one that does is him dangling his child over a balcony. That is not normal.

He just freaks me out. That's all there is to it.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:17 pm

pamh36 wrote:
I can't think of all of his behavior issues that come to mind, but the main one that does is him dangling his child over a balcony. That is not normal.

The dangling incident was blown out of proportion I thought. Yes it was a VERY STUPID thing to do... lol

He got caught in the moment and for about 3 seconds… he did something that was not right and he apologized for it. Do you remember the time Steve Irwin also ‘dangled’ his baby in front of a crocodile? Huh? One bad move and that baby would have been lunch. How about all the other parents who smoke in front of their kids or drink and drive w/ their kids in the car?

It only takes a few seconds for something bad to happen and I have seen parents do way worse than what Michael did… but of course a video clip of their mistake is not being played around 24/7 on the media stations.

I just think that there are a lot of parents who do reckless things with their kids… although some don’t mean to. I will tell you what happened w/ my mom. In El Salvador… the baby car seat was not really used… I remember there were times when I was riding in the truck standing up in the back seat, w/ my arms around someone… if there would have been an accident… I think I would have gone straight through the windshield. One time, we were going to visit an aunt. My mom was in the passenger side and had my brother on her lap. When we got there… my brother somehow opened the door and he fell on the ground hitting his forehead and blood covered his whole face and we had to take him to the hospital to get stitches. It was a very bad mistake for my mom to have my brother like that… and if she were in Jackson’s place… imagine that scene having played over and over and over in the television… my mom would probably be in jail! But my mom made an error in judgment. She loves us to death… she is not a bad parent.

Now since the media had fun playing Jackson’s video several times and making jokes about it… I will tell them that with Michael… he’s really not your typical adult…. And maybe what he was trying to do was reenact the scene from The Lion King. grinsmiley



Now for Simba to see those giraffes look so little… he really was high up!

No, but seriously… Michael is a severely damaged individual…and he has had enough beatings (tabloid, verbal, psychological, physical) to last him a life-time.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:35 pm

Yikes. I just reread my post and realized how not nice it sounded. I was headachey and crabby and didn't quite mean to make it sound the way that I did.

Now while I don't agree with some of the things I did, which I think just about anyone can say that some of the things he did is messed up. But, he does have a lot of talent. I liked many of the songs in the 80's back then (and the videos too), and I still like them now.

But I do apologize if my post may have offended anyone. I certainly didn't mean it to sound that way.

You are certainly right, Carol, I've seen many parents do things around their kids that they shouldn't be doing. I do whole-heartedly agree with you on that.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:32 pm

Hey Pam,
You don't have to apologize for anything... and my post was not meant for anything other than just to state how I view the situation.. that's all.

Wave


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:12 pm

Wave

Well, Carol, if I ever get into trouble. I know the first person that I'm going to call.


Laughing


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu May 19, 2011 8:27 pm

I guess now we will never know for sure what really happend.

I was never a fan of him or his music.He was just to werid to me.Always thought he seemed creepy.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael Jackson   Thu May 19, 2011 8:28 pm

and with his death.Yes,I was sad to here he died.But the media waas going over borad with it,


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