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 John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas

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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:56 pm

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag/2009/01/john-travolta-1.html

I posted an article I just read about how John's brother, and other family members had thought that Jett had autism. John and Kelly always denied this because Scientologists don't recognize autism as a disorder. I didn't know this, and it really angers me because I used to be a Speech Pathologist, and have worked with many autistic children. I can't believe that Scientologists don't believe in this communication disorder. That just blows my mind. Just one more reason why I don't understand the whole scientology thing. I'm just floored by this. How can you not recognize autism???????????????


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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:59 pm

I don't get Scientology at all, but to each their own, and sadly Jett had to pay the price.

I knew a few Jehovah's Witnesses, and they also refuse medical treatment, they don't celebrate birthday's or Christmas and they don't believe in the ressurrection of Christ. How can one believe in Christ and not believe in the most important thing.... Eternal Life!!

I don't get it.

I am glad I was brought up in a good Christian home, and had my grandmother for 20 years of my life to be that good Christian influence. I will carry that gratefullness to my grave.


Last edited by LindsayCrouseFan on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm

bethandmanly wrote:
The Travoltas have posted a letter of thanks on John's website. You know what I think makes it even harder to deal with is that for people who believe in God and life everlasting, these tragedies are difficult, but we can get through because we know that we will meet our loved ones again. But for people like the Travoltas, there is no acknowledgement of the after life, so for them it's like the end.

I agree, Cheryl.

That's one of the reasons I am a Christian! I believe in life everlasting, and I know I will one day, be reunited with all of my loved ones that have gone on before me. So, when a loved one dies, I know it's not the end for us. We have something to look forward to.

Jesus=Everlasting life!!

JMO.
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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:19 am

To be fair, Scientology's view on death isn't exactly "the end," and so the way the Travolta's are mourning the death of their son isn't exactly the same as perhaps an atheist who believes there is nothing after death would. Most people know that scientology is associated with an idea of reincarnation, but the best way I can think to describe it would be to say it's like having a consistently evolving collection of experiences spread out along a cycle of rebirths marching toward the idea of self-enlightenment... where the idea is to eventually become one with God. So while the idea of reincarnation is there, there's also an end in sight, too (per se), which in some regard might be viewed as an "after life" of sorts. But in order to get there, Scientologists ultimately believe in the idea of survival, using the principles of dianetics to achieve that survival, and using the philosophy of putting mind over matter in taking control over one's life. It's why so many people who read the books associated with the religion often refer to it as "self-help material." While the philosophy in Scientology is to help their fellow man, a lot of the basic formula comes from a very individualistic approach to understanding the concept of self. Yet, by the same coin, the fundamental difference between individualism and Scientology is that in Scientology one has to actively work to save others before they could ever save themselves. They're very active in times of disaster because of this. Lots of them were doing work at Ground Zero on 9/11 and a good number were in Louisiana during the floods. Like a lot of religions, Scientology believes that one of the best and most important things a person can do in life is to help another person in need.

It's also likely Jett was taking some form of medication for his seizures (whatever the cause of them was); Scientology doesn't condemn the use of all forms of medication, and in some cases even encourages it, but it's true that they don't believe in using any form of psychiatric drugs that they believe might "alter the mind." The biggest reason for this is that they see the use of those drugs as mending a snapped twig by tearing down a tree. Ultimately, anything that would affect the spirit or the mind is seen as something negative, as it hinders a person's spirit, mind, and body. Whether or not that view is ethical by modern times is certainly questionable and certainly up for debate.

True, they have some pretty controversial beliefs (the most controversial of which I won't even touch on). Also true, they are under heavy speculation as being a corrupt cult bent on making money off of exploited members. For all I know, those allegations could be true. Then again, who knows for sure?

Anyway, I really just wanted to share my own condolences to the Travolta family. I do hope they find peace of heart and I know that right now they're still coming to terms with a lot of what has happened. All we can do is pray for them, so that's what I'll do.



"Only if you've been in the deepest valley can you ever know how magnificent it is to be on the highest mountain."
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bethandmanly
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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:58 am

Coach Jon wrote:
To be fair, Scientology's view on death isn't exactly "the end," and so the way the Travolta's are mourning the death of their son isn't exactly the same as perhaps an atheist who believes there is nothing after death would. Most people know that scientology is associated with an idea of reincarnation, but the best way I can think to describe it would be to say it's like having a consistently evolving collection of experiences spread out along a cycle of rebirths marching toward the idea of self-enlightenment... where the idea is to eventually become one with God. So while the idea of reincarnation is there, there's also an end in sight, too (per se), which in some regard might be viewed as an "after life" of sorts.

Thanks for explaining that better Jon. I knew about the reincarnation aspect, but had only read that they don't really believe in the after-life.


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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:10 am

LindsayCrouseFan wrote:

I knew a few Jehovah's Witnesses, and they also refuse medical treatment, they don't celebrate birthday's or Christmas and they don't believe in the ressurrection of Christ. How can one believe in Christ and not believe in the most important thing.... Eternal Life!!

Actually, I am one and do not refuse medical treatment. I will do everything that I can to get medical treatment, according to my faith. Plus there are a lot of doctors who have nothing to do with religion who are beginning to practice operations without blood transfusions and there are a lot of ways you can get really complicated surgeries done without the need of a blood transfusion, for example, using your own blood, keeping it in cycle in a machine. A lot of people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses are starting to choose operations without blood transfusions because it is safer and studies show the recovery time is also better. If you google 'Bloodless Surgery' you will find a lot of information on it and how it's becoming more and more popular everyday.

Yes, I don't celebrate Christmas because we believe Jesus wasn't really born on the 25th of December... actually, any encyclopedia will also tell you the origin of the holiday and why December 25th was chosen. But just because I don't celebrate it, it doesn't mean I'm like Scrooge either... I do wish people happy holidays and still get together with the family and do things together with them around those days. I also don't have a problem if they wish me a Merry Christmas... I'll respect everyone's beliefs. I try to be fair with everyone, you saw how I hosted a Christmas party because I know everyone celebrates it. I grew up in different religions and celebrated every kind of holiday. No, we don't celebrate birthdays with candles in cakes... but we do recognize it as a special day as we thank God for making it through another year and I'll have a birthday lunch or dinner or something.

We definitely belive in the ressurection of Christ. We also believe in Eternal Life, but in a different way than you might.


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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:25 am

Carol wrote:
LindsayCrouseFan wrote:

I knew a few Jehovah's Witnesses, and they also refuse medical treatment, they don't celebrate birthday's or Christmas and they don't believe in the ressurrection of Christ. How can one believe in Christ and not believe in the most important thing.... Eternal Life!!

Actually, I am one and do not refuse medical treatment. I will do everything that I can to get medical treatment, according to my faith. Plus there are a lot of doctors who have nothing to do with religion who are beginning to practice operations without blood transfusions and there are a lot of ways you can get really complicated surgeries done without the need of a blood transfusion, for example, using your own blood, keeping it in cycle in a machine. A lot of people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses are starting to choose operations without blood transfusions because it is safer and studies show the recovery time is also better. If you google 'Bloodless Surgery' you will find a lot of information on it and how it's becoming more and more popular everyday.

Yes, I don't celebrate Christmas because we believe Jesus wasn't really born on the 25th of December... actually, any encyclopedia will also tell you the origin of the holiday and why December 25th was chosen. But just because I don't celebrate it, it doesn't mean I'm like Scrooge either... I do wish people happy holidays and still get together with the family and do things together with them around those days. I also don't have a problem if they wish me a Merry Christmas... I'll respect everyone's beliefs. I try to be fair with everyone, you saw how I hosted a Christmas party because I know everyone celebrates it. I grew up in different religions and celebrated every kind of holiday. No, we don't celebrate birthdays with candles in cakes... but we do recognize it as a special day as we thank God for making it through another year and I'll have a birthday lunch or dinner or something.

We definitely belive in the ressurection of Christ. We also believe in Eternal Life, but in a different way than you might.

Well, I am glad that you do not refuse treatment, Carol.

And my friends grandmother did not believe in the ressurrection of Christ. I would be happy to learn what your views are on eternal life and the ressurrection.

PM me!! Wave
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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:44 am

LindsayCrouseFan wrote:

And my friends grandmother did not believe in the ressurrection of Christ. I would be happy to learn what your views are on eternal life and the ressurrection.

PM me!! Wave

Okay, I just did. Thumbsup


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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:15 am

Thanks so much, Carol!! I just read it!!

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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:48 pm

Coach Jon wrote:
To be fair, Scientology's view on death isn't exactly "the end," and so the way the Travolta's are mourning the death of their son isn't exactly the same as perhaps an atheist who believes there is nothing after death would. Most people know that scientology is associated with an idea of reincarnation, but the best way I can think to describe it would be to say it's like having a consistently evolving collection of experiences spread out along a cycle of rebirths marching toward the idea of self-enlightenment... where the idea is to eventually become one with God. So while the idea of reincarnation is there, there's also an end in sight, too (per se), which in some regard might be viewed as an "after life" of sorts. But in order to get there, Scientologists ultimately believe in the idea of survival, using the principles of dianetics to achieve that survival, and using the philosophy of putting mind over matter in taking control over one's life. It's why so many people who read the books associated with the religion often refer to it as "self-help material." While the philosophy in Scientology is to help their fellow man, a lot of the basic formula comes from a very individualistic approach to understanding the concept of self. Yet, by the same coin, the fundamental difference between individualism and Scientology is that in Scientology one has to actively work to save others before they could ever save themselves. They're very active in times of disaster because of this. Lots of them were doing work at Ground Zero on 9/11 and a good number were in Louisiana during the floods. Like a lot of religions, Scientology believes that one of the best and most important things a person can do in life is to help another person in need.

It's also likely Jett was taking some form of medication for his seizures (whatever the cause of them was); Scientology doesn't condemn the use of all forms of medication, and in some cases even encourages it, but it's true that they don't believe in using any form of psychiatric drugs that they believe might "alter the mind." The biggest reason for this is that they see the use of those drugs as mending a snapped twig by tearing down a tree. Ultimately, anything that would affect the spirit or the mind is seen as something negative, as it hinders a person's spirit, mind, and body. Whether or not that view is ethical by modern times is certainly questionable and certainly up for debate.

Thanks so much for sharing this, Jon. I admit, I only know the 'basics' of Scientology myself, and when I went to John's website yesterday I clicked on the link to the Scientology website and watched some of the videos, in order to better educate myself. I was pretty confused when it spoke of the '7 phases' (or SLT)...it did seem to me that they were correlating the 7th phase with afterlife and yet I was very confused by it. You explained this very well and it's clearer to me now. Thanks for taking the time.

Like Teresa though, the denial of autism baffles my brain---in the case of Jenny McCarthy's son, she believes his autism was actually caused by vaccines. He is 'recovering' because of a radical change in diet and detoxifying of metals and overgrowth of yeast, and also through speech therapy and "applied behavioral analysis" that is allowing him to now learn the skills he needs to without being "frozen" in autism. I'm sure if a Scientologist (or anyone) told Jenny her son did not have Autism, she'd laugh in their faces. In fact, the medical community has....they now believe her son was 'misdiagnosed'. Do you think they want everyone freaking out about vaccines?! Jenny has stated that she does believe in the use of vaccines, but believes they are administering too many and too soon. In the 1980's, children only had 10 vaccines by the age of 5, now there are about 36 immunizations, most by the age of two. Pretty scary. And autism is on the rise---1 in 58 kids get it. Like Teresa, I really don't understand how Scientologists can deny that it actually 'exists'. In this case, and in the case of many mental illnesses or disorders, it can only be a positive, not a negative, if a child (or adult) afflicted gains the ability to lead a better life. And 'denial' isn't going to help anyone. We don't know all the facts about Jett yet, but from everything I've been reading, it certainly sounds like 'the experts' believed he had autism.

Here is the latest news about Jett:

Jett took the anti-seizure drug Depakote for several years, reducing the frequency of his seizures from an average of every four days to once every three weeks, they said, but the drug lost its effectiveness. The Travoltas, after consulting neurosurgeons, stopped administering it and Jett went back to having one seizure a week.

I have no idea how seizure medication works so I'm in no position to form an opinion on their decision to stop. I can only imagine how difficult this had to be for them, and I am in no way condemning them. If they consulted neurosurgeons, perhaps this was the only possible step to make.


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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:34 pm

I know the medical examiner is working on this, but has anyone heard of any funeral plans yet?




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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:09 pm

Apparently Jett has already been cremated in the Bahamas and the Travolta's have flown home to Florida with his ashes. They used a decoy hearse for the journey to the airport so they could have some privacy at this sad time for them all. God only knows how they must be coping but thoughts and prayers are with all of them.

John issued the following statement via his official web site.

http://www.travolta.com/




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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:14 pm

carolineingalls wrote:
Apparently Jett has already been cremated in the Bahamas and the Travolta's have flown home to Florida with his ashes. They used a decoy hearse for the journey to the airport so they could have some privacy at this sad time for them all. God only knows how they must be coping but thoughts and prayers are with all of them.

My heart is with them at this time. How awful it must be. They flew to the Bahamas... all 4 of them... and now only 3 are flying back Blue

It is awful... my aunt went through a similar situation... She and her husband flew to the US from El Salvador for a a vacation... but the way back... it was only her... and her husband's body. The arrival at home was even worse....

It's a tough time for the Travoltas right now. Blue


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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:57 pm

Oh how very sad for you aunt, Carol. I can't even imagine how awful it would be.


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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:22 pm

Thanks Amy. Yeah... it was a rough time.

I think today is the funeral for Jett...


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PostSubject: Re: John Travolta's son dies in Bahamas   Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:31 pm

I saw a lot of stuff about Jett Travolta on those entertainment shows last night. I believe today the family is holding a small service for him today. I just feel so awful for the Travolta family, Jett was so young, I think only about 16. my thoughts are with them
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