"TIMES OF CHANGE"

[Note from Carol regarding Editing]
Since I do the Episode Reviews, I have been given acces in the Episode Reviews forum to edit, move posts so that all posts regarding an episode stay together. If I post an episode review that has some post already started.... instead of me using the quotes feature... I will just edit the first post of whoever started the thread about that episode to include the pictures of the episodes at the top of the thread. That way, all comments and posts remain in their original form. [End of Carol's Note]


When Charles gets the opportunity to visit Chicago on business, he hopes to turn it into a romantic getaway for him and Caroline, but he ends up escorting Mary, who longs to visit her fiance John. As father and daughter navigate a city that is very different from their simplistic Walnut Grove, unexpected revelations are on the way for both of them.


 John John John    
I feel bad for Mary in this episode. She looks so in love and little does she know that John has already moved on.  Why would he write to her telling her he wished she could be at the dance?  He really looked nervous though... at the dance when he was handling two dates but it was fun seeing him squirm lol  The second part of the story... I'm sorry I didn't pay too much attention so I don't know exactly what Charles was dealing with... I may have to watch the episode again lol


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(blu3kool said....)

.... person.

I don't think he was wrong to break off his engagement, I just don't like the way he did it. I saw John as confused about what he felt for Mary; trying to cling onto the past as he was also moving into the future. John changed and Mary didn't fit into his plans, so he should have told her that. And even once she was in Chicago he didn't fess up, instead he tried to sneak it past her until she left. And to be honest, I never liked that he was portrayed as such a cad in that episode. It seemed so out of character for him. That's why I wrote two fan fiction stories about John Jr. and Mary to help explain John's POV and hopefully redeem him a bit--at least for me anyway.

Cheryl

Yes, and I'm glad you did write those stories. I really enjoyed them and always felt that this was something that should have been adressed in the series and never was.

Thanks. It really bugs me that they killed him off without any type of reconiliation b/w him and Mary.

Savannah wrote:

I don't think I've read any posts where people thought that John & Mary should have stayed together.

Well actually you're right; I just meant in several of the fan fics John regretted breaking off with Mary, but I don't think he would have. He may have had some mixed feelings about it, but deep down he knew it was right.

Savannah wrote:

he knew that his heart belonged to another

I don't think this was the main reason he broke up with Mary; in fact I don't think he even liked that girl very well. I think he just realized that their lives had taken them in different directions and things weren't the same between him and Mary anymore.

Well...I think that Pa himself said what you are stating to John. I meant , that John must have confessed to Mary that he wouldn't love her any more. But of course, he didn't...

Vanesa.

teenwerewolf wrote:

I think he just realized that their lives had taken them in different directions and things weren't the same between him and Mary anymore.

That's what I mean. I should have said "As soon as he realized that his heart didn't belong to her anymore". Whether he had truly fallen in love with this other girl or not really isn't the point. The point is that he knew he didn't love Mary, but continued to let her believe that he did. His behavior was that of a coward, and a cad, and it didn't fit with his character.

One thing that's always bugged me about htis episode is that they didn't show have a scene showing John telling Mary he wanted to break off the engagement. I wanted to hear what he woutld say. If you were writing the script, what do you have him say?

blu3kool wrote:

One thing that's always bugged me about htis episode is that they didn't show have a scene showing John telling Mary he wanted to break off the engagement. I wanted to hear what he woutld say. If you were writing the script, what do you have him say?

What I would have preferred was for him to write her a letter before she went to Chicago that admitted he didn't have those feelings for her any longer. Then she still could have gone with Charles to Chicago to face John--without John's knowledge--and that would have left him totally unprepared (as unprepared as Mary was when she saw him with this other girl).

Though another choice would be for the episode "Chicago" to stay the same and then have John Jr. return to Walnut Grove right before Mary finds out she is going blind.

i enjoyed this episode and thought john jr was very lucky pa contained his anger so well...i cant find an episode on what happened to the edwards family....when and why they left walnut grove

indi wrote:

i enjoyed this episode and thought john jr was very lucky pa contained his anger so well...i cant find an episode on what happened to the edwards family....when and why they left walnut grove

I don't remember all the details, but in the last episode of Season 3, "Gold Country", Charles and Isaiah take their families to California to see if they can strike it rich. They find some gold and bad things begin to happen--a common LHOP theme of money corrupting people flows through this episode--and in the end Charles decides to go home. I don't remember if Isaiah decides to stay in California or if he moves his family elsewhere, but this is where the Edwards family leaves the show.

"Gold Country" is one of those episodes that I won't watch very often. It's too depressing. That, and it just isn't plausible to me. Money has never been really important to Charles, so it makes no sense that he takes his family along for a ridiculously long trek west in search of gold. Not only that, a rule of the pioneer is to not back track, so Charles wouldn't have gone back home. He would have made a go of it in California. There is just so much wrong with this episode that I can't believe it was ever written.

Times of Change is an episode that I still cry at every time I watch it. Pa dealt with Mary so well and she was believable in her feelings about the situation.

bethandmanly wrote:

Thanks. It really bugs me that they killed him off without any type of reconiliation b/w him and Mary.

Yeah, that's something that would have been good to see...

I liked and didn't like this episode. the part that I liked was when Charles stood up to the other men at the Grange meeting he was at and truthfully told them his opinion. the part I didnt like was that John had an affair behind Mary's back and didn't even have the guts to tell her until Charles forced him to! I always thought John was a good person (even if I didn't like the actor who played him) until this episode.

I knew I could never trust John's character. I thought it was incredibly low of him to be too scared to tell Mary what was going on to her face. if he really cared about herat all, he would have told her what was going on, and he wouldn't have told her Pa that he was going to write a letter to her after she returned to Walnut Grove to tell her what was happening!

john was just too chicken to tell mary the truth...The city changed him.

bethandmanly wrote:

I don't think he was wrong to break off his engagement, I just don't like the way he did it. I saw John as confused about what he felt for Mary; trying to cling onto the past as he was also moving into the future. John changed and Mary didn't fit into his plans, so he should have told her that. And even once she was in Chicago he didn't fess up, instead he tried to sneak it past her until she left. And to be honest, I never liked that he was portrayed as such a cad in that episode. It seemed so out of character for him. That's why I wrote two fan fiction stories about John Jr. and Mary to help explain John's POV and hopefully redeem him a bit--at least for me anyway.

Cheryl

I agree with everything you said,You are right.

Posted official episode post. See pics above in the beginning

love them

That fancy lady, didn't like it, when Chatles turn her down. Charles, is honest man. He's not into fancy ladies.

When, John & Mary were dancing together. Mary told him, she love him. He didn't say it back. That's a sign, right there. That something was up. Don't love someone. Should tell them the truth. Not thinking, they're still love with you.

At the end of Gold Country Part 2. Ingalls & Edwards drove the cover wagon the same way. Going towards home. Cause, they met newly couple. Who were searching for hold, as well. Just see the nights on the dirt road. Then they go to credits.

I agree with the others who said John was (probably) right to break off his engagement with Mary, but that they did not like the way he went about doing so. John was not exactly the most honest character, as shown when he could not speak truthfully to Mr. Edwards about not wanting to go hunting with him, but he had always seemed to respect Mary. I did not particularly like Mary's character by this point in the series, but I thought she deserved better than the way John treated her.