Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD

While I think a Yahoo Group is a fabulous idea, I don't know how much time I would have to watch past episodes or contribute. I'm stretched beyond all comfort now, and if I get a job, my online time will be next to none.

Marilyn, you have a wonderful idea but unfortuately I'm in the same boat as the other ladies! I only come here and facebook, pretty much.

BUT, I have just the place for you!! It's a European forum that I am a member of, run by people who used to be on my Dr. Quinn forum (they're a husband and wife team, "Doc & Ella", from Germany. But the forum is in English. They get REALLY in depth and it is just a delight!! I know you would LOVE it there, and everyone is welcoming and wonderful. They also used to run a DQ forum together, so they have lots of experience and the forum is well run.

The ONLY reason I haven't been on is because they ARE a UK forum and they were talking spoilers, because they had already seen seaons 3 MONTHS ago! I will start visiting again there more often, since I'm done with season 3 now. But then when 4 airs for them, I'll have to stop again. But anyway, it's just a suggestion.

And as Lisa said, even if it's random, go ahead and talk about what you want to discuss from any episode here. I've seen the series (at least one and two anyway) enough times to generally know what you're talking about off the bat. It has quickly become like another Little House or Dr. Quinn for me. Once through is never enough!

Here's the forum, if you're interested!

http://downtonabbey-revisited.net/

You should never have shared that link, Amy. I'll never get anything done now.

I joined too. I'm MissedTheTitanic.

bethandmanly wrote:

You should never have shared that link, Amy. I'll never get anything done now.

Yay!! Cheryl, do you remember Doc & Ella from the DQ forum?

LIWnut wrote:

I joined too. I'm MissedTheTitanic.

Cool! And what a clever name! I'm just plain old Amy.

I have been looking for the double season dvd of the show and can't find them anywhere. Even the single seasons of 1 and 2 are sold out in the stores around here. It must be a very popular show, where have I been hiding?
I can't even buy this online, sold out everywhere.
[url=DVDs at Amazon]http://www.amazon.ca/Masterpiece-Classic-Downton-Seasons-Limited/dp/B008FYZIVY/ref=sr_1_9?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1359814345&sr=1-9[/url]

Amy wrote:

bethandmanly wrote:

You should never have shared that link, Amy. I'll never get anything done now.

Yay!! Cheryl, do you remember Doc & Ella from the DQ forum?

Sure do, Amy. I still visit the DQ forum from time to time, but I don't have a lot to say there. I love the show, but I don't know it like I know LHOP.

I'm enjoying the DA forum, but not a ton of participation. I think part of that is because some of the community has seen the entire 3rd season and others haven't. Fellowes is certainly taking a beating for killing off two main characters in one season.

Oh, and I've already decided what DA fanfiction story I will write, but I need to see the rest of Season 3 first.

LIWnut wrote:

I have been looking for the double season dvd of the show and can't find them anywhere. Even the single seasons of 1 and 2 are sold out in the stores around here. It must be a very popular show, where have I been hiding?
I can't even buy this online, sold out everywhere.
[url=DVDs at Amazon]http://www.amazon.ca/Masterpiece-Classic-Downton-Seasons-Limited/dp/B008FYZIVY/ref=sr_1_9?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1359814345&sr=1-9[/url]

Marilyn, I'm so sorry you're having so much trouble! Good grief, I knew it was popular but didn't realize it was THAT popular!! How about your local video store, like Rob suggested, have you tried that yet? Or library perhaps?

bethandmanly wrote:

Amy wrote:

bethandmanly wrote:

You should never have shared that link, Amy. I'll never get anything done now.

Yay!! Cheryl, do you remember Doc & Ella from the DQ forum?

Sure do, Amy. I still visit the DQ forum from time to time, but I don't have a lot to say there. I love the show, but I don't know it like I know LHOP.

I'm enjoying the DA forum, but not a ton of participation. I think part of that is because some of the community has seen the entire 3rd season and others haven't. Fellowes is certainly taking a beating for killing off two main characters in one season.

Oh, and I've already decided what DA fanfiction story I will write, but I need to see the rest of Season 3 first.

I got a weird message from the board saying that I have to have '5 posts before I can reply on the board.' Huh?! According to them, I have 3. Um, I was there before and had probably 30 or so....I don't know why I'm going back to zero just because I haven't been there in months. Strange! So I need to contact Ella or Doc and see how I can get to 5, when it's telling me I can NOT post, lol!

Sorry to hear there's not a lot of activity though! I wonder if they were all posting like wildfire during the airing of season 3 and then kind of went to a standstill. I don't know. I hope it ends up being a worthwhile place though, over time.


Ooh, a DA fanfic in the works, eh?? Can you give me a least a little hint as to whom it involves?

And I notice you're "Mrs. Hughes Fan". I have never loved Mrs. Hughes so much as I do in season 3! I always liked her, but I absolutely adore that woman now.

Amy wrote:

Ooh, a DA fanfic in the works, eh?? Can you give me a least a little hint as to whom it involves?

And I notice you're "Mrs. Hughes Fan". I have never loved Mrs. Hughes so much as I do in season 3! I always liked her, but I absolutely adore that woman now.

I want to bring Sir Anthony back to try to talk some sense into Edith about her editor, Gregson. Though I don't know all that happens, I've found some information online that provides a detailed synopsis of each episode. I'm hoping Edith doesn't get involved with a married man, no matter what the circumstances. The actor who plays Sir Anthony is on another period drama now, so I don't know that they plan to bring him back, but as far as viewers know, he still lives near the Crawleys. His return would give him the chance to apologize to Edith and for her to have her say about what happened. Perhaps they reconcile and agree to at least remain friends. That way he doesn't go down as a cad in my version of events.

I love Mrs. Hughes, especially this season. Perhaps there is a Mrs. Hughes fan fiction in there somewhere, too.

First off, let me just say that my heart broke for Edith at the altar. But I have a different take on Sir Anthony. I feel like what he did was a great service to Edith, and was done out of love. I wish he had come to the realization before getting her all the way down the aisle, but he had struggled with this indecision for a long time, and was literally convinced by Edith (and then even Robert!) that it could work. It was only the night before the wedding (a I recall anyway), that Edith proclaimed to him, "I want you to be my life's work." Um, how could that make anyone feel?? Her heart was in the right place, but no one wants to be someone's life's WORK. Not exactly a marriage made in heaven, and I think he totally knew it right then. He realized that he was marrying his nursemaid, even though she had tried to convince him for months that that was not the case. Robert said it too, as Cora was trying to be happy for Edith. "Cora, she will be wheeling an old man around by the time she is 50." (or something like that). I have figured out based on what the characters have said that Edith is about 26 years old here, and Sir Anthony is 50 or 55. Not a small age difference, by any means. I honestly don't feel like Sir Anthony owes Edith or anyone an apology. Clearly he was torn up as he left the church, walking across the lawn to the carriage. You could see the devastation written all over him. He is such a good man, with a huge heart, and in the long run was 'taking care' of Edith, and loved her enough to set her free. He could apologize for waiting until the altar to come to the decision, but that's all I feel he needs to be sorry for. I highly doubt he'll be back, but wouldn't mind seeing him come back either, if Julian finds something more for him. I do like the chemistry between Edith and this editor....I know it's controversial, but I do see this as an extremely special circumstance and feel very sorry for this man, that he may not have happiness for his entire life, or at least until his crazy wife is dead, which probably won't happen for ages.

I agree with how you see Sir Anthony. I think he would feel the need to apologize to Edith for humiliating her the way he did, even though it was unintentional. And I don't think she would hear him out at all on Gregson if he didn't attempt to apologize first. I can't say much abot Gregson, since I haven't seen him yet, but it sounds like an interesting plot point.

Oh that's right---I forgot you haven't seen him yet! LOL, it's so hard to know which episodes have aired and which haven't!

And yes, I would think he should still apologize for leaving her at the altar.....I can see 'why' and 'how' it happened, but she still deserves an apology about it. I just re-watched this episode today (it's just the next in line) and I could cry for Edith as she's lying on her bed crying over her ruined wedding/marriage.

I am now the proud owner of all 3 seasons. Where there is a will, there is a way!!

On Sunday night I watched the show via dvd but forgot that my videotape was recording. The dvd was over before the show and so I watched the ending as it played out on tv. There were scenes on tv that are not included on the dvd's. What a bummer!! The part where Daisy and Jimmy talk about William is missing and the scene where O'Brian talks to Thomas about Jimmy liking him is missing too. (That I can live without, no problem)

Congrats Marilyn!!!

LIWnut wrote:

There were scenes on tv that are not included on the dvd's. What a bummer!! The part where Daisy and Jimmy talk about William is missing and the scene where O'Brian talks to Thomas about Jimmy liking him is missing too. (That I can live without, no problem)

I can't stand that. Why do they cut parts out? Especially parts like O'Brien talking to Thomas about Jimmy. That's so important to the plot, seeing how she is setting him up to take a huge fall.

My friend said the online version had cut parts out too----apparently the UK version (which is what Lisa & I have) is slightly different than the PBS version. Very silly! Also, in the UK they saw the first two episodes separately---PBS showed it in one night.

Amy wrote:

Also, in the UK they saw the first two episodes separately---PBS showed it in one night.

That explains the difference in the number of episodes. Is it true this is only going for six seasons?

I hadn't heard that Cheryl!! How would they know that already?


About the first two episodes, I saw them both ways. I watched it first on PBS, which showed them in two hours. Then when I got the UK dvds from Lisa (thanks Lisa! ), I watched them in separate episodes, and I think it 'shows' SO much better that way. The reason being....I felt SO incredibly gipped of Matthew & Mary's wedding. I mean, I'm going to feel gipped any way you slice it, but on PBS they literally have Matthew & Mary at the altar, with him saying "I was a little worried you wouldn't show up", to which she replied "I wouldn't want to ever be predictable", and then instantly we see them IN their car on their way HOME from their honeymoon. What the heck?! I was instantly mortified. I couldn't believe that Julian robbed us of their entire ceremony!! To get all those people in that church, and everything completely set up, why not just FILM the whole thing? Or at least MOST of it???? Ugh, SO upsetting.

But somehow I could swallow all of this a little better, watching it on the UK dvds, shown separately, with the first episode ending with them at the altar. It allowed me time to at least fantasize about their wedding ceremony and what it might entail. I'm sure those in Europe were completely shocked too when the second episode came around the following week and there was no ceremony. But still---it felt even MORE abrupt being shown as one episode.

So far I have backed almost everything that Julian Fellowes has done with this show. But in THIS case I think he royally screwed up. Mary & Matthew have been THE center of the show. They are THE couple....much like Dr. Mike & Sully were in Dr. Quinn, where all the townspeople were sub-storylines. Can you imagine Dr. Quinn not showing the wedding of Michaela and Sully? Heck, they devoted an entire EPISODE to the wedding! Julian OWED the fans that scene, and I'll never forgive him for it.

Maybe that's why he didn't show the ceremony--because in the UK there were two different episodes. But it might also go back to his philosophy that happiness is so hard to dramatize.

Spoiler:

I, too, thought we would at least get to see the I do part and the kiss. Dockery and Stevens have a tremendous amount of chemistry together, and I think Matthew has helped to soften Mary's character a great deal. I'm hoping we don't see a return to the snarky, serious Mary in Season 4.

I have the PBS versions of the series but it says on them ORIGINAL UK EDITION. Makes me wonder if PBS is going to issue the US versions too. Weird.

I am rewatching series 2 and wondered why Branson doesn't live in the house with the other servants. He lives in a cottage, it mentions in eppie 3. Also in the episode, he wants to dump a pot of slop on the visiting army guest at dinner when he volunteers to serve table. Why is this, I'm lost.

LIWnut wrote:

I am rewatching series 2 and wondered why Branson doesn't live in the house with the other servants. He lives in a cottage, it mentions in eppie 3. Also in the episode, he wants to dump a pot of slop on the visiting army guest at dinner when he volunteers to serve table. Why is this, I'm lost.

I think it's because Branson is 'just' the chauffeur, not a servant, so they do not house him. I always got the idea that he chauffeured for other places than just Downton Abbey, but I can't be sure about that. As far as the dumping of slop it was to show his political disdain for the army guest....I can't remember the exact details, but it was as a show of his support for Ireland---revenge for the acts done against his people.

Amy wrote:

LIWnut wrote:

I am rewatching series 2 and wondered why Branson doesn't live in the house with the other servants. He lives in a cottage, it mentions in eppie 3. Also in the episode, he wants to dump a pot of slop on the visiting army guest at dinner when he volunteers to serve table. Why is this, I'm lost.

I think it's because Branson is 'just' the chauffeur, not a servant, so they do not house him.

I think so, too. He wasn't working in the house, so he wouldn't have quarters inside the house.

Oh, so someone over at the DA forum asked about the ideal ending to the show. I had a bit of fun coming up with things, but I think I'm a bit morbid. Here's my version of possible events:


The death of the Dowager Countess throws the entire family for a loop. Lord Grantham, dependent upon his mother for support, falls into a deep depression. Cora is beside herself, and though Dr. Clarkson attempts to help him, Lord Grantham wants nothing from the man who caused a rift between him and his beloved wife over Lady Sybil's death. Cora eventually makes the difficult decision to institutionalize Robert.

Branson, now in charge of Downton, struggles as a single father living in a place he can never think of as home. While Little Sybil is doted on by servants, aunts, and her grandmother, her father's feelings toward Downton and his desire to return to Ireland, become a large part of her personality. She plans to escape Downton as soon as she is old enough.

Little Matthew never gets over the loss of his beloved grandfather, Lord Grantham. Thinking it is too frightening of a place, Mary never allows him to visit. This poisons Matthew's relationship with his mother, and leads to many battles between them. Mary and Branson have a short-lived affair, hoping to help each other through their loneliness. But through it, Branson learns to appreciate all that Downton means to Mary and promises to do his best to preserve it during the uncertain times despite his personal feelings toward everything it represents. Sybil, angry by what she sees as her father's betrayal, turns on Mary, plotting to make her aunt sorry.

Edith, knowing she will remain a failure at Downton no matter what her success, packs up and leaves for America, where she becomes an award-winning journalist for her articles that bring about social change.

Carson suffers a stroke, leaving him permanently disabled. Mrs. Hughes marries him and they live in the village, where she cares for him until his death. Bates becomes the butler, much to Thomas's dismay. Though he remembers well how much Bates helped him deal with the Jimmy issue, his long-held distrust of anyone makes him sure Bates will seek revenge one day.

With Daisy running the farm, Mrs. Patmore is lonely. When she becomes too fraile to work at Downton, Daisy--who has been too busy with the farm to marry--cares for her at her home until Mrs. Patmore's death. Daisy's farm is successful, and she finds many looking for work with the financial collapse brought on by The Great Depression. People often come to her when they need food or shelter. Remembering her lowly days as a servant, she never turns anyone away.

Word of Robert's suicide is communicated to Cora. Distraught, she plans to visit her elderly mother in America. Too tired to be part of all the changes coming to Downton, and lonely in the years she and Robert have been apart, she wonders where her place is. While she enjoys her time in the States, rumblings of war encourage her to return home to Downton. She dies on return trip. Her mother dies a year later.

Isobel, does her best over the years to help those less fortunate, but she ignores or doesn't seem to grasp how her charges mock her. How could a member of the Crawley family understand what life has been like for them? When she pushes one young lady too far, the woman grabs a knife and murders her.

With the death of her parents so fresh, and now the loss of Matthew's mother, Mary is afraid she and Tom won't be able to pull Downton through the dark days ahead. WWII is devastating. She is forced to release all the servants, except Anna and Bates, who insist upon staying with them. Matthew has enlisted, much to his mother's and Sybil's dismay. Sybil had been enjoying her trysts with cousin Matthew, and truly has become quite fond of him. Mary and Tom begin to quarrel, he favoring the Labour party, while she favors the Conservative Party. They know it is just a matter of time before they part ways.

Edith makes a brief return to Downton during this time to attend her parents' and Isobel's funerals. Mary bristles at how modern her younger sister has become. They quarrel and Edith leaves soon after the funerals, declaring she will never set foot in Downton again. Right before Tom and Sybil leave Downton, he begs Mary to reach out to his only living sister, but it is to no avail. When word reaches Mary of Edith's assassination, the only living Crawley sister weeps for all she has lost.

Bates dies.

By the end of the war, Mary is looking forward to the return of her son Matthew, but it is also with a heavy heart, as Downton is no longer the dynasty it once was. She wonders what will become of them. Once Matthew returns, he is even more bitter than he used to be. War has changed him, and every conversation between him and his mother is laced with angry words. He wants nothing to do with Downton, which Mary cannot understand. Matthew's wartime nightmares frighten his mother. When during a hallucination he attempts to kill her, Mary realizes she must get him some help and puts him in an institution. Matthew becomes increasingly violent and is killed during an altercation with another resident.

Sybil knows how her aunt's heart aches over Matthew, but she is busy living her life, and is waiting for the perfect moment to reveal her treachery. When Lady Mary takes ill, Sybil returns to Downton. She reveals she was in touch with Matthew during the war. She did her best to make him hate everything about Downton, seeing it as what killed the father he never knew and his beloved grandfather, Lord Grantham. It was she who worked to mold Lady Mary as Matthew's enemy, turning his wartime trauma into something he turned on his mother, which eventually led to his death. Anna, who was present in Lady Mary's chambers when Sybil reveals all this, strikes the girl, threatening she will kill her if she ever sets foot in the house again.

The final scene takes place years later, with Mary on her deathbed, being attended to by Anna. The entire series was actually Mary and Anna discussing all the years that passed at Downton. Lady Mary thanks an emotional Anna for her years of dedicated service, telling her she has left Downton to her in the last draft of her last will and testament. Then Lady Mary takes her final breath, while tears roll down Anna's cheeks.

Mercy! That's a lot of dying, but very interesting.

LIWnut wrote:

Mercy! That's a lot of dying, but very interesting.

Very true, but how else would Mary come to inherit Downton?

Cheryl, I am officially glad that you are not writing Downton Abbey. Have mercy, girl!! (I actually think you need to fear Lisa and her pan on this one. ).