May We Make Them Proud

My problem with that episode was the fact that Albert did not get any form of punishment after they found out he was the one that did it. Sure it was an accident. But still he should have been punished in some way. I mean it was arson and i am not sure if second degree murder is the correct term to call it. But i can`t think of another term to use.

But i do agree with you that Charles favoritism with Albert was strange. But i think it was because Charles always wanted a son.

But i also agree that being more concerned about Albert than Mary was strange.

And could Mary really be able to forgive Albert i mean he was the reason that her child died. Even if it was an accident. I don`t have children so i could be wrong. But my guess is that a mother or father would have a hard time forgiving a person that caused the death of their child even if it was an accident. Of course that is a guess from my part. I could be wrong

Some people may say that the guilt was punishment enough. But it really is not.

i apologize form my crappy spelling and grammar.



That being said it was a good episode

I watched this episode in its original broadcast and felt so sucker- punched as a kid. I rewatched this episode recently as an adult and still wonder what possessed Michael Landon into writing this story. Short answer: Network Television Ratings Sweeps Month. After having Mary first miscarry and then become pregnant again, this episode seemed way too cruel to have her lose the 2nd baby as well so soon after its birth. Unless Michael Landon was trying to prove that bad things happen unexpectedly...these bad episodes happen every once in awhile on LHOTP.  I loved Mrs. Garvey so much too!  If they really had to have this happen, they should have just let Mrs. Garvey die and a child from the blind school, would have made it still resonant without it taking a major hit on Mary and Adam again (poor unlucky couple).  

I wonder if it was discussed what long term effects there would be on Adam and Mary's storyline. Killing off their 2nd baby meant they weren't going to play out the concern Mary expressed in "The Wedding" about raising a sighted child. It's as if the setup occurred for a great Mary and Adam storyline with no follow through.

Also silly that the school had to burn down and later when Adam's father is supposed to donate to the rebuilding...because of the his father's money mismanagement...all that's left is that plaque in Alice's and Adam Jr.' name.

And agree with all the opinions that Mary and Adam leaving their baby in their room and putting their other students before their own baby's safety was plain stupid! This is pretty much the episode that made me hate Michael Landon as a writer for the show.    

Also since Albert was the one with Clay to play with the smoking pipe...I don't see how easily Adam and Mary could forgive the loss of their precious 2nd baby ( as well as Mr. Garvey and Andy about Alice) without a long long long healing period.  I would think realistically it would have taken much more than a 2 parter to forgive the loss of precious family members.

Not realistic at all and seeming to favor the cliché of guilt ridden children running away only to be later rescued by Pa and told they don't have to feel bad anymore and everything is okay??!?? Strange strange episode.

I think that is what they were trying to show because Albert did have a conscience which is why he was upset with Mary and the music box, etc. I know when real parents I read about in the paper,  had a child die and probably could have prevented it, they fell in pool, hit by car pulling out, etc. maybe a lit cigarette starting a fire, the judge usually thinks losing the child was enough pain. No fine or days in jail make that less.

I think many Christians try to forgive, at least with words first. As my priest said to me once, the feelings can come later, the words can be a start for many to heal. I agree, it would be very hard for me, but what punishment could there have been?

I didn't like this show, much too dark and I was tired of seeing Mary go through yet another heartbreak. Back then, people were used to losing family to illness and miscarriage, etc. but this episode was a little over the top for me, well acted, but over the top.

Yes it was very much an overdone episode and I think one that seriously led to the show's decline.

I just finished watching both parts of this episode, and I'm going to post before reading the other comments about it. I don't even know when or if I ever saw it all the way through before, although likely I did on the original run if not since. The first hour is one of the heaviest hours of TV that I can think of, and although it is so heavy, I love it, even though it is so traumatic. I don't think LHOTP ever won an Emmy, but why, oh why, not?? I feel like I'm going through the trauma with the characters, from Mary's breakdown, to Adam's despair, Jonathan's anger, and Albert's guilt. I'm not quite as into the second hour (although right at the moment I can't even remember the dividing part), as it seems like a lot of time is taken with Albert going off to search for his biological father. But the payoff is sure nice. (However, at the end, why aren't Laura and Carrie there??) One other quibble with this episode.....why isn't Almanzo ever there to offer a bit of comfort to the Ingalls family, and especially to Laura?

I don't know for sure which scene would get my award for most emotionally draining - the actual fire and death of Alice and the baby, Mary freaking out and breaking the glass with her hands, or the scene where Mary starts screaming "My baby!" over and over while Albert is yelling how it was an accident and how he didn't mean it. I think that last one is my favorite - the anguish of both characters for different reasons overlapping with each other.

One thing I'm confused about is that Adam's father is going to pay to rebuild the school, naming it after Alice and Adam, Jr. - but I don't think the school ever gets rebuilt.....maybe I'll find out why not in a later episode???

Okay, I'm going to stop now and go back and read the comments others posted about this one.

Shell wrote:

I'm not sure where the blind students went after the fire. The school was in the process of being rebuilt during part 1 of He Loves, Me, He Loves Me Not. Adam recieved a letter from his father's law office announcing Adam's father passed away. When Adam went to New York to settle his father's estate, he learned his father was in debt. Lura went with Adam to New York and after Charles picked them up from the train station in Sleepy Eye, Laura saw a vacant building and convinced Charles and Adam it would be a perfect place for a new school.

There's my explanation for why the blind school was never rebuilt in Walnut Grove!

Shell wrote:

It's not fair that Albert got the blame for the fire. Clay talked him into smoking. Albert wasn't so sure about smoking saying he once smoked Charles' pipe and got sick.

We saw Clay run out of the room, so I think he was also feeling the guilt. I think they just didn't focus at all on him, but perhaps in a fanfiction someone could write a whole story about what was going on with him as well and what happened to him after the truth came out.

julmer70 wrote:

OMG, this board is wonderful!  I left imdb's LH board because of all the character bashing...and bashing of each other!  They especially love to bash Albert, and they call him evil, etc..mostly because of this episode!  It's nice to see everyone here is a lot more understanding!  

This episode is so sad, and it's hard for me to watch.  However, the end, when Charles yells "I love you" to Albert was really touching.  

Albert was not evil....he and Clay did do something wrong and foolish, but neither he nor Clay had any intention of causing the death of someone. And I think it was Clay who just tossed the pipe.....if only one of them had gone back and retrieved it, but of course neither of them expected it to cause a fire. And Albert paid dearly with the guilt he carried. I think the episode was so much better because of the fire being caused by the pipe than if the fire had just happened for some other reason, because we got to see how the guilt affected Albert. I think the scene when he hears Pa talking about the pipe is really excellent acting, since we see Albert go from just being sad like everyone because of what happened, to being hit with the guilt, all without even any speech from him....just his bearing and his expressions are sufficient to see how he is affected. And for anyone who thinks he was evil, well let's just hope they never do something foolish that causes or contributes to something tragic happening. I know I have done so many foolish things, some with serious consequences and some where I have been spared serious consequences. I'm thankful for grace when I've truly screwed up big time.

julmer70 wrote:

I agree Dave, I always thought Clay was really the one to blame.  Over on the imdb board, the main reason they hate Albert so much is because of this episode.  One person over there goes as far as to call him the "demon child."  Ooooh, that burns me up!  

I loved the ending too...it reminded me so much of Charles & Laura in "The Lord is my Shephard."  It was very similar...Albert blamed himself for Adam Jr & Alice Garvey's deaths; Laura blamed herself for her baby brother's death (because she had bad thoughts).  The end results were the same.  Michael Landon was a genius!  

One last thing Dave...your latest picture of Matt...Oh...My...God!  Drooling & melting over here...

To me, the whole point of the episode (or at least one of the major points) is a father's love and grace for his child, even when his child made a huge mistake. That final scene is kind of a picture to me of God the Father's love for us, his wayward children. Even when we sin, he can still forgive us and extend his love and grace to us. Okay, maybe I better stop preaching now.

But if Albert had not been involved in the cause of the fire, I think we would miss out on one of the most important aspects of this episode.

Praire Girl wrote:

Can anyone tell me what happened to the blind children after the fire? I think I was so upset I didn't here.

I was thinking that there was a voiceover by Melissa Gilbert when one group of blind kids, the last to leave town, were getting on the stagecoach. I thought she said that the ones that had parents were sent back to their parents. The ones who were orphans found temporary homes with people in or around Walnut Grove. But others on here thought that someone else talked about this. So I wonder if there are different scenes explaining this?? I watched a recording from COZI-TV and they have so many millions of commercials for Medicare supplemental plans that they must have to cut out a fair portion of the actual episode. Maybe I just don't remember correctly though.

Alice Garvey wrote:

this is one episode that I can't  bare to watch. I was very partial to Alice and hated to see her die esp in such a tragic horrible way. I can't even imagine what Jonathan and Andrew were going through and also Mary and Adam losing their baby. I will admit that I used to get discouraged that Adam and Mary did not grab Adam jr. Alice died trying to save their baby. so sad

Yes, I agree that seems to be a scene contrived for the plot. Would have been better to me if Mary had not already been in the room, like if she was also downstairs, and she and Adam ran to help the blind kids (perhaps because Alice may not know how best to get them out) and Alice said she would get the baby and then I think it may have been a bit less obvious that Mary just abandoned her baby in the middle of a fire.

Horatio Hornblower wrote:

My problem with that episode was the fact that Albert did not get any form of punishment after they found out he was the one that did it. Sure it was an accident. But still he should have been punished in some way. I mean it was arson and i am not sure if second degree murder is the correct term to call it. But i can`t think of another term to use.

But i do agree with you that Charles favoritism with Albert was strange. But i think it was because Charles always wanted a son.

But i also agree that being more concerned about Albert than Mary was strange.

And could Mary really be able to forgive Albert i mean he was the reason that her child died. Even if it was an accident. I don`t have children so i could be wrong. But my guess is that a mother or father would have a hard time forgiving a person that caused the death of their child even if it was an accident. Of course that is a guess from my part. I could be wrong

Some people may say that the guilt was punishment enough. But it really is not.

i apologize form my crappy spelling and grammar.



That being said it was a good episode

I don't think punishing Albert was necessary. What is the purpose of punishment? To inflict even more pain on someone? To train them not to do the wrong thing again? I'm pretty sure Albert learned a hard lesson and that the punishment of going through life knowing that you inadvertently caused or contributed to the death of someone is more punishment than any whipping or anything else. Even though we see the grace extended to Albert, I would think there would be times in the future where the guilt would still return and be pretty overwhelming.

While I don't know legally if it would be called arson or second degree murder (or maybe manslaughter), I don't really feel like it was arson. I think arson would be intentionally setting fire in order to cause damage or death. And I still think a major point of the episode is not that justice be done to Albert, but that mercy and grace be shown for him.

Wow! After going through and reading the comments, I'm kind of surprised at how much fans on this website dislike this episode, and I guess I'm one of the odd ones because I love it. I prefer something this heavy and dramatic to the "fluff" episodes that are much more silly.

I do, however, agree that there were things I would change if I could about it....like having a better reason for Alice to be the one to grab baby Adam and Mary and adult Adam not being able to get him.....maybe it would have been better if they were for some reason not even at the blind school when the fire broke out.

Many know that Melissa Gilbert has a new book out, and is now touring to promote that book. She is being seen on talk shows, book stores, and other places to get the word out that she has a new book. I found this article where MG answers a question that many fans have wanted to be answered for years. I have never understood why people actually think they saw what they say happened in this particular episode...It's the elbow, people...the elbow...
Read Here

I don't think I ever thought Alice used the baby as a battering ram until reading other comments about that....and looking back at the scene, I believe it is clear (if you pause the viewing) that she never did use the baby to break the glass. In fact, I think her actions in that scene are fairly realistic. If you are cradling a baby in your arms, your choice to break the window is either to attempt to hold onto the baby with one arm and use your other arm or to somehow use the arm you are primarily cradling the baby in. I think most people would naturally cradle the baby primarily in their dominant arm, especially in an emergency situation....and I believe Alice has the baby's head cradled against her right elbow, as I think would be natural (for someone who is right-handed). Then it would also make sense to use your dominant arm to try to break the glass, as it would be strongest. And using the elbow also makes sense, because you can't drop the baby and use a fist. So actually, I feel that Alice (Hersha) acted how one might really act in this kind of emergency situation and was actually protecting the baby as much as possible while also desperately trying to escape in the most effective way. All of this (if it were real-life), of course, would happen instinctively, not thinking through each step of the process.