Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD

Initial thoughts---I'm not liking this series. Too smutty for me. I watched via vpn and iTV. The links haven't been posted yet so I won't spoil it for you. Will chat later.

I was saying the same thing, Marilyn. Definitely getting edgier as time goes on.

Yes, I can't believe the Pamuk incident wouldn't at least make her stop and think. Not liking the Mary/Gillingham storyline this season.

So...are we liking the 5th series? I can't say that I'm enjoying what I've seen so far. They spend too much time on topics that don't interest me and not enough time on the stories that do. I couldn't care less who Mary ends up with and I'm not impressed on her actions to get to that place, so far. I'm dying to know what will happen with Edith and Marigold, Bates and Anna and Baxter and Molesley but these stories are second fiddle to pre-marital sex and flirting with a married woman.
Hopefully it will get better for me. What do the rest of you think?

I haven't had time to post here much about this season, but honestly I think it's SO much better than last season...like, by a thousand fold!  It's FAR more interesting and I find myself getting excited all week for the next one, and I have not felt that way in a long time about this show!  Well, at least all throughout season 4.  

This whole Mary thing going to bed with Tony (ugh---he's a rat), is part of a much bigger picture.  I think it's a stretch for us to believe that she would need to 'experiment' in order to be sure she wants to marry him (Really????---I get that she's an experienced woman now but this is kind of ridiculous), BUT, there is more to it than that, at least on Tony's part.  Let's not forget, this was his idea and what 'gentleman' comes up with a plan like this?  There is some belief that, considering his fortune is gone, he is TRYING to get her pregnant and stake his claim with her family.  I was with you Marilyn, in the beginning I really couldn't care who Mary ended up with, but now it's become kind of interesting.  At first I really liked Tony, but now I'm seeing what is so endearing about Blake.  He hasn't flaunted his wealth, and he hasn't 'outed' Tony to Mary even though he believes Tony is a cad. He is allowing Mary to learn that on her own.  Hopefully before it's too late though.  So, in my opinion, this storyline is picking up speed.

Then there's Tony and the whole Greene thing.....there's also speculation that he had his reasons for wanting him dead...perhaps Greene had something, some kind of blackmail hanging over his head. And Bates KNOWS something....he either saw Tony kill Greene or he knows about it, but he was clearly smug with Tony in that room, (as he was performing his valet duties), and Tony was clearly uncomfortable.  So yeah...things are going to get juicy there soon too.  I'm just worried about Thomas...I have to guess that all this with Anna is going to come out and the 'motive' for Bates will be revealed.  And I'm scared to death that Anna's reputation will be ruined.  I can't bear for anything more terrible to happen to her.

For the first time, I actually found Cora endearing in this latest episode, with the art expert.  Yes, she was 'out' with him, but in her eyes it was innocent and she clearly had no intention of 'being' with him...she was obviously thrilled that Robert had come to surprise her and was hurt at his accusations. I understand why he was upset, but I couldn't help but ache for her as he belittled her opinions so, after she'd been so uplifted by the other man.  Anyway...I really liked that scene.

Lisa, you asked about Rose.  Umm, she can take a flying leap whenever---I've never liked her (as a character or the actress who plays her---she's not up to par with the other actresses in my opinion), but I THINK they had come to an agreement that she was going to live with them, for good, not just visit...the mother had agreed to this, I thought.  So yeah, she has 'replaced' Sybil....pretty poor replacement if you ask me.  I STILL miss Sybil.

Ugh, Sarah Bunting....rude, brash....she is not just 'opinionated.  I could accept that.  But she has been rude to Lord Grantham in his own house, as his guest, and it ticks me off that both Isobel and Tom defend her so.  NO, there is no defense for poor behavior.


Lisa, I couldn't agree with you more about Marigold and Edith...what on EARTH??? this is the strangest arrangement ever!  Did she and the husband/father really think they could just keep doing this indefinitely??  I mean, DAILY???  How about she get to see her for a quick visit once a week?  Better yet, once a month?  But NO woman would be able to deal with this kind of interference.  What I don't understand is how the mother hasn't pieced it together yet?  I mean, this woman wants to 'finance' one of your children (your ADOPTED child) and wants to see her all the time?  And COMPLETELY ignores all your other children?? And that doesn't tell you anything?  Umm, no.


As always, Violet and Isobel are the comic duo geniuses...I love them both together.  Maggie Smith looks a little more frail, and her voice is quieter.  I wonder if there's something going on with her---it has me a bit concerned.

Oh, wow...Baxter is REALLY a good actress!!  I am so glad that this is all coming to light FINALLY after it being dragged out all through season 4.  And once again, Cora endeared herself to me by letting her stay.  I really like Baxter, and I like Mosely with her too.  

So cute, how they're veeeeeeery gradually moving along with Carson and Mrs. Hughes.  They have the cutest, funniest, slowest relationship!  Too adorable.

Daisy is another one I wish would just move on to Mr. Mason's farm and leave Downton.  I've had enough.  Bring someone else into the kitchen for Mrs. Pattmore to train already, someone who isn't so annoying!!


Did I touch on everything?  Yes, I think that pretty much does it.   If not, I'll be back.

Amy wrote:

This whole Mary thing going to bed with Tony (ugh---he's a rat), is part of a much bigger picture.  I think it's a stretch for us to believe that she would need to 'experiment' in order to be sure she wants to marry him (Really????---I get that she's an experienced woman now but this is kind of ridiculous), BUT, there is more to it than that, at least on Tony's part.  Let's not forget, this was his idea and what 'gentleman' comes up with a plan like this?  There is some belief that, considering his fortune is gone, he is TRYING to get her pregnant and stake his claim with her family.  I was with you Marilyn, in the beginning I really couldn't care who Mary ended up with, but now it's become kind of interesting.  At first I really liked Tony, but now I'm seeing what is so endearing about Blake.  He hasn't flaunted his wealth, and he hasn't 'outed' Tony to Mary even though he believes Tony is a cad. He is allowing Mary to learn that on her own.  Hopefully before it's too late though.  So, in my opinion, this storyline is picking up speed.

I hadn't even remembered Tony's fortune being gone. I was wondering WHY there'd been such a change in him when he was *supposed* to be a gentleman. Excellent point. And yep - I'm right there with you on having really like him at first. Now, though, I'm pretty disappointed with him. (Obviously.) It looks like Mary is having second thoughts about him already, though. Otherwise she would have been willing to set a date for the wedding instead of saying that there's no rush.

Amy wrote:

For the first time, I actually found Cora endearing in this latest episode, with the art expert.  Yes, she was 'out' with him, but in her eyes it was innocent and she clearly had no intention of 'being' with him...she was obviously thrilled that Robert had come to surprise her and was hurt at his accusations. I understand why he was upset, but I couldn't help but ache for her as he belittled her opinions so, after she'd been so uplifted by the other man.  Anyway...I really liked that scene.

YES!!! I meant to comment on that and I forgot to. Cora was SO happy to see Robert - it was obvious that her joy at seeing him wasn't fake. And I was hurting for her when he so bluntly dismissed her opinions as being basically worthless when another man had found her opinion to be intriguing and of great value. I understand why Robert was upset (and jealous), but I wanted him to GO AFTER HER. Hmph. Men.

Amy wrote:

Ugh, Sarah Bunting....rude, brash....she is not just 'opinionated.  I could accept that.  But she has been rude to Lord Grantham in his own house, as his guest, and it ticks me off that both Isobel and Tom defend her so.  NO, there is no defense for poor behavior.

That's it EXACTLY. She's being disrespectful when she's a guest. She's entitled to her opinion, but that doesn't give her the right to behave rudely toward someone in their own home. OR to treat the other guests with such disrespect, either. To treat the Russians in such a manner that they felt that they had to LEAVE was completely uncalled for. She is offically my least-favorite character - and that's saying a lot when I seriously dislike Cora's mother.

And yes, I noticed, too, that Violet seems a little more frail this season. I hope that nothing major is going on with her.

Annnnnnnd, yes. As cute and charming as Daisy was in the first season, she has just REALLY grown annoying. She basically never does anything but complain. Either give the girl some better lines or give US a break and move her on. Sheesh.

Carson and Mrs. Hughes have such a sweet friendship/relationship. I love to see how it's progressing. And THIS I don't mind being drawn out slowly, because it's very believable. It's quietly growing, almost without the two of them even realizing that it's happening. I love it.

Well, hopefully we are done with Miss Bunting after her behavior in yesterday's episode. She may still tutor Daisy, but I don't think we will see her at anymore dinners. If this is the last season of Downton, I predict she and Tom will be heading to America.

Tony sure didn't take Mary's news very well. I see trouble in Mary's future.

It will be interesting to see how this whole Green thing turns out. Now they are looking at Anna?

I'm enjoying most of this season. I'm glad they are once again focusing on the more sympathetic side of Thomas's character instead of having him be all evil and mean.

I agree with you, Lori: looks like Miss Bunting has worn out what little welcome she had at Downton. And based upon next week's previews, looks like Tom is setting her straight a bit too.

Lisa, I am okay with the Daisy storyline for now. It seems after this week that she is truly working toward leaving Downton, so perhaps by the end of this season she'll be on the farm with Mr. Mason.

How does Edith not realize the damage she is doing to poor Marigold with all these visits? I'm glad Mr. Drew's wife is putting her foot down.

I'm not sure that Marigold is suffering as a result of Edith's visits. It would be the same as a babysitter today. She doesn't take her to the Abbey, just stays around the cottages. I think the ones suffering as the mothers. I hope she spills the beans and claims her daughter. They need to be together.

My concern is how Edith dotes on Marigold and ignores the other children. And to some degree it must seem odd to his wife that Mr. Drew is okay with Edith spending so much time with Marigold and trying to give her a better life when the rest of the kids are his natural born children. It must cause some animosity toward Marigold by the other kids and perhaps Drew's wife.

Dame Maggie meets Her Majesty

Our Dowager Countess was given the Campion Honour by Queen Elizabeth today.

Whoops, that link didn't work.  I'll see if I can find it.  

Lisa & I were saying last night (after we've both watched the latest episode online yesterday) that we were both on the edge of our seat with this one, and how long it's been since either of us felt this way about this show!  It's like they've re-awakened something.  Or Julian did, or whatever.  But that 'feeling' is back for me for this show and I quite honestly did NOT see that happening!!  Re-cap:

Oh Edith.  Oh my gosh...I feel TERRIBLE for Mrs. Drew!!  She's going to lose Marigold!!  How UNFAIR!!  And their marriage is going to go caput too...she will resent her husband till her dying day.  Poor woman.  I'd be as royally ticked  off about Edith's ridiculous visits too!!  There was a way of doing this more gracefully as to avoid Mrs. Drew's suspicions and jealousy.  Good grief....my question is, how could she NOT have figured it out yet?!  I mean, it's pretty obvious.  Who just fawns over an ordinary adopted little girl like this?!  Come ON.  Glad they're FINALLY advancing this plot line though.  And yes Cheryl, part of being 'graceful' about all this would have been Edith making SOME kind of effort to bond with the woman's OTHER children too.  What must they think???  I feel just awful for them (about to lose their sister) AND the parents.  I of course have been sympathetic to Edith for MANY things over the seasons and all she has gone through, but in this case, my sympathy is for the adopted parents.  I can't really muster anything for her now. She gave her up, she did not out herself to her family, and these are the consequences.  May be harsh, but she isn't doing Marigold (oh how I hate that name) any favors by remaining in her life and confusing her.  I really didn't understand the aunt's reasoning for pushing it either, saying "Mrs. Drew is going to explode."  How about reason with your NIECE how Mrs. Drew has every RIGHT to be upset and it's time to withdraw from this child's life?  How can they (or Violet??) justify removing Marigold from her current family????  Ugh.

In more uplifting news....

Ding Dong, the witch is GONE!!  Woooooo hooooooo!!!!   BEYOND thrilled to see her go, can you all tell?   So glad to see Tom feeling 'fine' about it too; like thanks for helping me to grow as a person, Sarah....now, be gone with you! LOL!  Just hope to goodness she doesn't REAPPEAR at some point.  Historically though Julian brings these women in to create a stir in his audience and then makes their final exit.  I REALLY hope this is the case this time too. I couldn't take any more of her!



Daisy---I'm ready to ring her NECK!!  To step out of line like that and implore Tom to go after Sarah????  And to tell him he's not part of that family, not a Crawley???  Who on EARTH does she think she is??????????    Just go away Daisy.  We've all had just about all we can take of you now.  Well, at least I have.  Daisy, this is just for you:





At least they're making Mrs. Pattmore MORE bearable. I used to get annoyed with her too, but it seems like they've tried to really tone her down this season.  I like the direction they're taking her, and that was cute, how she and Mrs. Hughes 'appeased' Carson a little in the end...they knew what was what, but stroked his ego a bit as to not insult him.  Too cute.  And oh my gosh, how funny was this line:  "If only men gave a quarter as much thought to our feelings as we do to theirs."  ROTFL!!!!! Ain't THAT the truth?!?!



Wow, well wasn't THAT quite the scene in Cora & Robert's bedroom?!  Whoa!!   Gee, we certainly saw that punch coming, didn't we? LOL.  POOR Cora, caught in the middle of this and truly wanting to get the art dealer out of her bedroom!!  Yes, he might be right---there may have been feelings awakened in her but they weren't FOR him. She was simply enlightened by him and happy to be on the receiving end of his appreciation.  He made that into some kind of romance but she was not going there.  And clearly he could see he wasn't going to 'talk her into anything' so should have just given up and LEFT the room.  I thought the acting in that scene was great by all.  Should be interesting when Cora and Robert have the 'big talk'.  I thought the filming in the end was neat, showing their dischord and then narrowing in on the faces of the family witnessing this.


Hmm, what else?  Oh, Anna!  The previews for next week have me worried about her and Bates and their marriage!   And wow....I wish they'd spell it out about Thomas and what he's doing.  I think they've left a little too much up to interpretation here. I  want to know exactly what's he's been injecting himself with (or how he thinks he's helping himself).  I have an idea, but still---I guess I need this spelled out!  Hopefully next episode.


I have to say I'm finding Rose a WEE bit more endearing this season.  However unbelievable it is to me for the time period, her colorblindness and now being blind to the fact that this guy is Jewish---it certainly is clear to see that she is a good person. I just don't like that they've literally 'replaced' Sybil with someone who has the exact same characteristics she had---new age, rebellious. Would that REALLY happen???   I still don't find myself 'caring' about her or her life, lol....like Daisy, I could see her go in a heartbeat and be totally fine with it.  Last episode, when Shrimpy was saying that he was thinking it was best for her to stay, I was like, "Noooo! Take her with you!  Take her with you!!"  Poor Rose.


Guess I've had my say!  Can't wait to hear what you all thought!

Here is another link about Maggie's honor from the Queen:

http://www.eonline.com/news/589706/maggie-smith-downton-abbey-star-79-honored-by-queen-elizabeth-ii-see-the-photos

This was probably the best episode so far this season. It was so nice to see Tom say goodbye to Sarah. She looked like she couldn't believe he would choose the family over her. I do hope we see an end to the "who killed Mr. Green" storyline soon. We really haven't seen much of Bates this season. Just a line or two spoken to Anna. I have an idea, too, Amy, about what Thomas is up to. We will probably be finding out soon since it doesn't look like he will be able to remain on his feet much longer. The "solution" for Marigold seems ridiculous. It seems like it would be better for everyone for her to remain where she is. She is clearly in a loving home, and Edith could at least catch a glimpse of her every so often. Plus if Edith would just stay away for a long time, she could then apologize to Mrs. Drew, saying she bored or something until she started visiting Marigold but now she knows how intrusive she had been. Then maybe they could start again with a once a month planned visit.

Lori wrote:

This was probably the best episode so far this season.  It was so nice to see Tom say goodbye to Sarah.  She looked like she couldn't believe he would choose the family over her.

And that seemed so dumb to me!  Just the episode before, he told her that she's forgetting that HE loves them!!!  Then she went on to make a scene at the table immediately following that conversation!!  I think that was his answer.  Then at the 'goodbye' scene she ignorantly said, "Don't you despise them too?"  What the heck?  Was she NOT listening??  Ugh, I SO can't stand her.

Lori wrote:

I do hope we see an end to the "who killed Mr. Green" storyline soon.  We really haven't seen much of Bates this season.  Just a line or two spoken to Anna.

I was just thinking that yesterday Lori.  I wonder if Brendan Coyle is making a movie or something?  He is barely seen or heard from at all this season so far!!  I miss him.

Lori wrote:

The "solution" for Marigold seems ridiculous.  It seems like it would be better for everyone for her to remain where she is.  She is clearly in a loving home, and Edith could at least catch a glimpse of her every so often.  Plus if Edith would just stay away for a long time, she could then apologize to Mrs. Drew, saying she bored or something until she started visiting Marigold but now she knows how intrusive she had been.  Then maybe they could start again with a once a month planned visit.

Exactly.  From the get-go, things should have been set up very differently, as to avoid all this.  The husband was pretty clueless---HE knows his wife and that she would never have tolerated this intrusion into her life.  What wife/mother would?  But he should have been sensitive to his wife's feelings and clearly 'chose' Edith's well being over hers, and his own daughter's.  He could have suggested, when things started becoming tense, that Edith come by less often, make less of a presence of herself, IF she wanted to continue seeing Marigold...to actually make it an ultimatum.  But Edith has been so dense, not being intuned to Mrs. Drew's feelings whatsoever, just as a 'woman to woman' type thing.  Asking herself "Would I want this if I was Marigold's adoptive mother?"  Edith has acted SO ridiculously selfishly throughout all this.  Very disappointing.  It's not like she's a self-absorbed teenager or young 20 something.  She's in her late 20's early 30's if I'm figuring correctly?  She should be older and wise enough to at least TRY to see someone else's side in things.  THAT is what is disappointing about the dowager and aunt---THEY should be talking some sense into her, not leading her down this path, which is unfair to everyone else involved, mainly Marigold. ARGH!!

Thomas is taking drugs because he believes that he can change his sexual preference. There were doctors back in the 1920's who prescribed these drugs. Being homosexual was illegal and Thomas is trying to change himself so that he can be happy in love.

I had a feeling that was it Marilyn. The 'choose your own path' article led me to believe as much. But I couldn't be absolutely certain. He is such a tough one---he really is such a sympathetic character and of course he 'acts out' because of his myriad issues, lol, but I would so love to see him turn a new leaf and 'be good' from here on out. I'd rather find someone else to dislike now. But somehow I have to guess he'll be at a crossroads soon with whether to cause trouble for Anna & Bates or not. Anna has tried to befriend him several times over the years....maybe all of that 'trying' will finally pay off. We'll see.

Lisa, I won't even start to reply to your comment yet for fear of never getting to bed! It's after midnight and I DO have to work tomorrow!

Nothing like wishing my week away---I can't wait for the next episode!! LOL!

Amy wrote:

Lori wrote:

The "solution" for Marigold seems ridiculous.  It seems like it would be better for everyone for her to remain where she is.  She is clearly in a loving home, and Edith could at least catch a glimpse of her every so often.  Plus if Edith would just stay away for a long time, she could then apologize to Mrs. Drew, saying she bored or something until she started visiting Marigold but now she knows how intrusive she had been.  Then maybe they could start again with a once a month planned visit.

Exactly.  From the get-go, things should have been set up very differently, as to avoid all this.  The husband was pretty clueless---HE knows his wife and that she would never have tolerated this intrusion into her life.

I kind of feel like the husband is trying to appease Edith because Lord Grantham let him farm his father's land when Tom & Mary wanted to take it. Robert secretly gave him money so that he could stay on the farm. I don't think he's totally clueless as much as he wants to help the family that helped him.

How old was Marigold supposed to be when she came to the Drewe's? How long was it before Edith wanted to take interest and visit the child? I think JF is skipping quite a few months in this story. If the baby had come to Downton at 6 or 8 months of age, wouldn't Edith be visiting sooner than now? I think that she would have been there visiting for over a year by this point. That was the whole reason for bringing her back to England in the first place.

I have been watching every episode!! I won't share many of my thoughts for they are to similar to all of your thoughts on the show so far. I really like Tom he is one of my favorite characters! I was hoping Tom and Lady Mary would become an item but thats very unlikely and maybe a little awkward!

bethandmanly wrote:

I kind of feel like the husband is trying to appease Edith because Lord Grantham let him farm his father's land when Tom & Mary wanted to take it. Robert secretly gave him money so that he could stay on the farm. I don't think he's totally clueless as much as he wants to help the family that helped him.

That makes sense Cheryl and I agree that's where his head was at in starting this whole thing. In my mind, he should have seen sooner what it was doing to his wife, having her there all the time, and should have been more sympathetic to her, rather than angry with her all the time. He's so apparently stuck in the mode of having to 'pay' the family back that he is blind to his wife's feelings in this, I guess.

Lisa wrote:

I think that he also genuinely feels sympathetic toward Edith...But honestly, they couldn't have picked a much worse way to include Edith into Marigold's life. Edith was basically a complete stranger, and then just started coming every. Single. Day. And focused all of her attention on just one member of the family to the exclusion of everyone else. Now, tell me that ANY of us would enjoy having a total stranger suddenly start to come over every single day out of the clear blue, with no real explanation, and fawn over one member of the household every time they came. It's disruptive to a family's schedule, to say the least - especially at that time when the modern conveniences weren't available, and laundry ALONE could take an entire day. Then factor in the meals, the cleaning, teaching the children (not schooling - but the things that parents teach children on a daily basis). . .Yeah...they picked a LOUSY way to introduce her into Marigold's life.

Yep, point well taken. I can't imagine having to deal with this if I were Mrs. Drew!

LIWnut wrote:

How old was Marigold supposed to be when she came to the Drewe's?  How long was it before Edith wanted to take interest and visit the child?  I think JF is skipping quite a few months in this story.  If the baby had come to Downton at 6 or 8 months of age, wouldn't Edith be visiting sooner than now?  I think that she would have been there visiting for over a year by this point.  That was the whole reason for bringing her back to England in the first place.

There is definitely a time discrepancy here, Marilyn, I agree...I've seen that for awhile too but this wouldn't be a first with downton abbey, lol.

JW wrote:

I have been watching every episode!! I won't share many of my thoughts for they are to similar to all of your thoughts on the show so far. I really like Tom he is one of my favorite characters! I was hoping Tom and Lady Mary would become an item but thats very unlikely and maybe a little awkward!

No worries here Jacob---feel free to share, even if you're repetitive! Ok I'll admit it...I kind of wanted that too. I know it would have been awkward and maybe even a tad wrong, ahem, but I think there may have been a way of making it somewhat acceptable. Personally I feel like she has more chemistry with Tom than she does Blake or Tony! But yeah, I think IF JF would have taken them in that direction, it may have been a bit too soap opera-ish.

Glad you're enjoy the show so much Jacob!