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 Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD

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LIWnut
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:07 pm

Ok, I know that I'm in the minority here but I am SO GLAD that Edith finally has Marigold. It was never her idea to give up her baby in the first place, she was forced to do it by Rosamond. I feel sorry for Mrs. Drewe but glad for Edith. She needs someone to love.


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Well, I'm kind of glad she has her now, too, especially since Mary was so mean to Edith in this episode. Now that she's left, maybe Edith can get a good storyline. This was another good episode overall. It was good to see Bates and Anna with more than a line or two. And now we know why Bates kept the ticket. Perhaps Thomas will be kinder now since he has been shown kindness and has nothing to hold over anybody. I loved the end with Carson and Mrs. Hughes.


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:06 pm

I'm glad Edith and Marigold are together, but I really wish she didn't have to cause such a problem with the Drews to get there. Rosamond shouldn't have interfered.

History tells me that Thomas won't be kind for long, but we'll see what happens. Lori, I definitely loved the conversation between Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes too.


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:54 pm

I just can't be happy for Edith, I'm sorry.  It WAS ultimately her decision---Rosamund didn't hold a gun to her head, Edith could have confronted her family with the truth---she had witnessed Sybil take them on and come out better for it.  And Edith wasn't a young naiive girl but a woman who knew her own mind, or at least should have. And Marigold was conceived out of love...it's not like this was some fling.  This is her child---she knew what she was doing by giving it up.  There are consequences to her actions, harsh consequences, ones that involve messing with other peoples' lives.  She has ripped Marigold from the only family she's known, from loving parents and brothers and sisters, all who are left in the dust to mourn the loss of her.  Mrs. Drew was nasty with Edith (rightfully so, because she didn't know the truth) and nasty with her husband (understandably so) but was clearly a loving and caring mother to Marigold and her other children.  Had they portrayed her as a questionable mother, then I may feel differently now.  

I noticed the comments on the Downton abbey FB page and they are all happy for Edith too. I guess in my opinion, people would feel a LOT differently about Edith had they portrayed that scene in a more realistic way---at that age, I'm sorry, that child would have kicked and screamed being taken out the door with this stranger, seeing her mother having a total meltdown (kids are smart and intuned, this would not have been lost on Marigold) and she would have had her arms out and screaming for her mother.  That's realism. That was TRUE LOVE, what Mrs. Drew did, composing herself like that---she wanted her daughter to have her bunny and she wanted her last moments with her to be significant and calming.  I LOVE Mrs. Drew.  I see Edith's act as the most disgusting form of selfishness and I'll never look at her character the same way.  

Edith and Mr. Drew should have come clean to Mrs. Drew long ago...then Mrs. Drew would have been privy to the idea that she COULD lose Marigold to this woman.  She never ever saw that coming, not until the moment Edith came to the door and threatened to TAKE her.  Just THINK how that must have felt.  Makes me ill.  I can't watch Edith being all happy and content with Marigold when she has officially ruined a once perfectly intact family----ruined a marriage, broken Marigold's real mother's heart (and yes, I consider Mrs. Drew her mother) and hurt her brothers and sisters too.  In my opinion, Edith did this for EDITH.  This was not for Marigold.  Marigold had a happy life with people who loved her.  Edith couldn't even once see it from Mrs. Drew's perspective, that she was a complete nuisance in her life and that she needed to TELL her why she needed to visit with Marigold. Instead it was like she threw a temper tantrum and just said, "So be it, I'll take her as mine then", without Mrs. Drew ever having any knowledge to be able to make any kind of compromise ahead of time!  SO unfair and selfish. ARGH!!!

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.  It's not that I didn't see this coming, but when it actually happened I just found it SO utterly disturbing. No

And don't get me wrong...I always liked Edith---well not ALWAYS, but she'd grown on me.  I have sympathized with her several times over the years.  There is certainly a piece of me that wants to be happy for her.  But I just can't, not after witnessing that.  There was a moment when Mrs. Drew was saying goodbye that she leaned in a bit toward the child and Edith gave her a protective look and turned slightly from her.  I was ready to throw something at my screen!  It's like, "Are you KIDDING me right now Edith??? Do you not have a heart??"  thud


Mary---oh my gosh, she truly was obnoxious in this episode!  She is not likeable AT ALL this season.  I don't like what they're doing with her character.  Oh that line, "I think she's marvelous" (or something like that) and Violet, "I think she's cracked!"  laugh3

Loved the Bates and Anna moments too!  He is such a great actor...I've been missing him showing his acting chops and wow, he sure showed them off in that scene!

I LOVED the Carson and Hughes part too!!  Oh my gosh, what it must have taken for Carson to get those words out!! LOL!!!  And, "a business endeavor?!"  Most women would have been put off, but I love how Mrs. Hughes clearly reads through it and is so touched and flattered!  Adorable!! Love

I'm so worried about Violet losing Isobel!  I love their friendship together.  Notice how they are showing the progression of time too---it used to be where the ladies just sat properly and had tea together---now they're doing puzzles and playing cards!  Love that.  But I'm wondering if Violet will maybe pursue the prince more, after hearing how Isobel is planning to "take her chance for adventure."

Well, that's re-cap enough.  I'm quite the long winded one here, I know!! Yikes


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:38 pm

I can't write much about Edith. Seriously, it made me sick last night. I will just say that in real life, the child screams. Horribly. And you never forget the sound. I can't be happy for Edith when she has likely destroyed the marriage of this couple, has devastated the children who loved Marigold as a sister, and broken the hearts of two mothers all so that she could have what she wanted. The woman in Switzerland may have adopted another child, but that does NOT erase the pain of losing a baby. Edith was NOT forced into what she did. She's a grown woman, not a child. She could have faced the consequences for her behavior, but she chose to let others bear the consequences instead. She is the embodiment of every adoptive parent's nightmare. She has officially moved into my "least favorite character" lineup. I used to champion for her, but I can't anymore. I'll try not to say anymore about it - but I hate this. I truly do.

NOW...on to more pleasant topics. I was SO GLAD to see Mr. Bates back. I KNEW...knew, knew, KNEWWWWWWWW that when Anna hid Mary's book ETC. at the cottage, Mr. Bates would find it and make the obvious conclusion. Why on earth didn't Mary just have them burned? (Unless she's planning on such behavior AGAIN, which would be highly shocking for that era.)  Anyway...I was happy to see Anna and Bates really talking.

Mary really is very unlikeable this season. And it's as if she has completely forgotten that she's a mother. We see so little interaction between Mary and her son, and Tom and his daughter, that it's as if the children only exist as props. No

I'm glad that Isobel is going to say yes - but I hope that she's able to maintain her friendship with Violet. The two of them are so much fun to watch together, and the relationship has slowly grown into a . . . real friendship. Rather than merely antagonizing one another, they actually enjoy one another's company. . . AND antagonize one another.  greenS

HA! When I saw Mabel Lane Fox, at FIRST I thought it was Sarah Bunting, and I thought, "NOooooooo!"  Then I realized who it was and I was okay again. Wink

Let's see. . . Oh, Thomas...It would be nice to see him turn over a new leaf after experiencing genuine kindness in spite of the way he'd mistreated Baxter. I doubt that we will, but it would be nice. He's getting older, after all...It's been what. . . 15, maybe 16 years since the first season? The Titanic sank in 1912, and it's now 1928...So come ON, he should be softening SOME by now.

Oh yes - and Carson and Mrs. Hughes.  Love  Just. . . . Love

 
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:38 am

Lisa wrote:
Give Edith a life! And NOT somebody else's.

You hit the nail on the head with that one statement. I want Edith to have a life, but she's made her bed already.

Lisa wrote:
.....try to build a friendship with the whole FAMILY, rather than just doting on one member. If she would do that, she could become an "aunt" to Marigold, and have a relationship with her throughout the years. It may not be what she wants, but we don't always get what we want in life.

Exactly!  I know the 'aunt' position was not what Edith wanted, but she'd made a life decision that required it to be so.  Unless she did the unthinkable, which she did...which was to take Marigold as hers and destroy the lives of the family. You know, it's pretty sad when it hits you that both Edith and Mary are completely self-centered people.  Yikes And it's REALLY sad when it hits you that Rose is the only one who isn't!  How did THAT happen?!?!  


Lisa wrote:
It was so nice to see Mr. Bates - I've missed him, too. (And his voice. He has such a nice voice.) I love seeing him and Anna together. They have such great chemistry! But yikes, it sure LOOKS like there's trouble ahead for Anna. I hope not. She's been through enough.

I love their chemistry too. loveheart  There's been nothing very 'entertaining' about them this season until now, and I hadn't realized how much I missed that until I saw that on screen!  That said, I'm really worried for them.


Lisa wrote:
Now...Rose...actually...She has endeared herself to me to some degree in working with the refugees. It rather surprised me. (Both that I didn't completely dislike her anymore, AND that she was doing volunteer work. HeeHee ) She still isn't my favorite character, but I like it that they're expanding her beyond just empty-headed fluff. I certainly can't accept her as a "Sybil replacement" - but she's growing on me as her character changes.

Yes. Well I still hate the fact that they've made her suddenly so much like Sybil (volunteer work, not caring about someone's 'status' in society (Branson) or religion (Atticus), the similarities are countless, but I really couldn't stand that girl before so I guess it's ok with me that they're working on making her more bearable to her audience. greenS


Lisa wrote:
I can't write much about Edith. Seriously, it made me sick last night. I will just say that in real life, the child screams. Horribly. And you never forget the sound.

Aww, Lisa. Smiley Hug I thought of you as I watched that scene. cryB  I know it makes it even that much more difficult for you.  But I have watched this entire process without having gone through anything similar (other than losing daycare children and miscarrying, which is not the same thing, but I do know the feeling of the loss of a child), and I still feel more sad for Mrs. Drew than I can feel happy for Edith. It's more than I can muster.  I'll never forget an old Prime Time episode I watched too, of a child who had been adopted through an open adoption and was taken away at age 2 or 3. I remember how awful that scene was, and not with just the parents---the child was in hysterics.  I just think it was ridiculous to portray Marigold completely calm and content with Edith when it's not like she'd become comfortable to the point with her that she'd allow her to take her away from her mother, all while witnessing her mother's hysteria.  She's not a doll, which is what Edith (and the writer!) have made her out to be!  It upset me too that Mr. Drew didn't seem to care that much that his daughter was being taken from him too.  It would have helped Mrs. Drew to at least cope a little better knowing that her husband gave a crap that HIS daughter was being ripped from them too.  Good grief.


Lisa wrote:
The woman in Switzerland may have adopted another child, but that does NOT erase the pain of losing a baby.

Oh gosh, that's right.  There was that woman too!  How could I have forgotten about her?


Lisa wrote:
NOW...on to more pleasant topics. I was SO GLAD to see Mr. Bates back. I KNEW...knew, knew, KNEWWWWWWWW that when Anna hid Mary's book ETC. at the cottage, Mr. Bates would find it and make the obvious conclusion. Why on earth didn't Mary just have them burned? (Unless she's planning on such behavior AGAIN, which would be highly shocking for that era.)  Anyway...I was happy to see Anna and Bates really talking.

Did anyone else think that Mrs. Hughes wasn't telling the truth about the ticket?  I got a weird vibe about that, "Oh, I must have thrown it out" and playing off as if she didn't remember.  If she did have it though, why would she keep that a secret from Anna?  Or do you guys think she really threw it out?

And I'm assuming they're still going to talk about the book and the 'device'?  I thought it was interesting that they got all mushy gushy (or that he did with her) when he was still so angry about the fact that she was apparently not wanting to get pregnant.

Lisa wrote:
Mary really is very unlikeable this season. And it's as if she has completely forgotten that she's a mother. We see so little interaction between Mary and her son, and Tom and his daughter, that it's as if the children only exist as props. No

Oh my gosh, I KNOW!!!  What is up with that?!  This is one more thing that has made me dislike her this season.  I want the Mary back that grew on me while with Matthew.  Season 2 and 3 Mary!!  Her comment was very telling to the hair stylist, "You've made me feel very strong."  Well Mary, bringing back a little of that old softness wouldn't be such a bad look for you. Blue  Matthew wouldn't approve of this new Mary, I am certain of that.


Lisa wrote:
I'm glad that Isobel is going to say yes - but I hope that she's able to maintain her friendship with Violet. The two of them are so much fun to watch together, and the relationship has slowly grown into a . . . real friendship. Rather than merely antagonizing one another, they actually enjoy one another's company. . . AND antagonize one another.  greenS

Definitely. HeeHee  I just think it's going to be a whole other dynamic, with her being married off.  I really thought the doctor and Violet were going to make it their mission to try to make Isobel see that she would be 'empty' with this man though.  They were leading us to believe that was the plan, and then a couple of scenes later they just agree, "The truth is, they really are well suited for each other."  Really??  Well suited?  I thought we were talking about love here!! scratchead  I'm holding out hope that she does NOT marry him.  I've always wanted her with the doctor!!  HE needs to profess his love to her!  He'd come close once---he needs to actually come out with it.  THEY would be perfect for each other!


Lisa wrote:
HA! When I saw Mabel Lane Fox, at FIRST I thought it was Sarah Bunting, and I thought, "NOooooooo!"  Then I realized who it was and I was okay again. Wink

Laughing I can see why you thought that at first.  But wow, Miss Mabel sure is a gorgeous woman!  And a lot nicer than Mary, lol!  If she knew why Tony wanted Mary (money), she wouldn't want him either!! Yikes  I'm hoping she figures him out and he ends up with NEITHER woman.


Lisa wrote:
Let's see. . . Oh, Thomas...It would be nice to see him turn over a new leaf after experiencing genuine kindness in spite of the way he'd mistreated Baxter. I doubt that we will, but it would be nice. He's getting older, after all...It's been what. . . 15, maybe 16 years since the first season? The Titanic sank in 1912, and it's now 1928...So come ON, he should be softening SOME by now.

That scene with them was just beautiful, I thought.  I loved that interaction between them.  He has found a TRUE unconditional friend, which is really cool.  I just love Baxter.  And frankly I think she's one of the finest actresses on the show.

Lisa wrote:
Oh yes - and Carson and Mrs. Hughes.  Love  Just. . . . Love

Indeed. Love
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:43 am

Amy wrote:


Definitely. HeeHee  I just think it's going to be a whole other dynamic, with her being married off.  I really thought the doctor and Violet were going to make it their mission to try to make Isobel see that she would be 'empty' with this man though.  They were leading us to believe that was the plan, and then a couple of scenes later they just agree, "The truth is, they really are well suited for each other."  Really??  Well suited?  I thought we were talking about love here!! scratchead  I'm holding out hope that she does NOT marry him.  I've always wanted her with the doctor!!  HE needs to profess his love to her!  He'd come close once---he needs to actually come out with it.  THEY would be perfect for each other!

See, if he would DO that, THEN I would be happy to have her with the doctor. But this other man openly professed his love for her, and is genuinely interested in the things that interest her. I don't think her life will have to be empty with him, because he deeply loves her. If the doctor would actually PROFESS his love for Isobel I'd be back in his corner again. (I really was rooting for him because I think they'd be a great couple.) But if he doesn't love her enough to openly tell her so, then no. No She's worth that effort...worth the risk.

Ha! And yes, I thought the same thing when Bates and Anna were getting all happy and emotional - I thought, "Yes, but give him ten minutes and he's going to remember that he's still seriously TICKED."

When you stop and think about how old Edith and Mary both are by now - they HAVE to be in their thirties, considering their ages when the show opened in 1912, and the current year - it's shocking and ridiculous that they're both still so full of themselves and give so little thought to anyone else around them. They should have matured by NOW.

Laughing Amy, I love your phrase about Rose, that they're making her "more bearable to her audience". That's it exactly. I REALLY couldn't stand her at first, so it surprises me that she's growing on me. But it's refreshing to find at least ONE person who isn't self-centered.

I'm really very disappointed that the writers chose to make Tony such a cad. He was such a nice man last season. I would have preferred to see him continue to be a gentleman. But we don't always get what we want. Wink


Amy wrote:
That scene with them was just beautiful, I thought.  I loved that interaction between them.  He has found a TRUE unconditional friend, which is really cool.  I just love Baxter.  And frankly I think she's one of the finest actresses on the show.

You know, I wasn't very sure about her when she first joined the cast, but I've really grown to like her a lot.

Oh! The ticket! I'm pretty sure that Mrs. Hughes was lying, because the expression on her face didn't look like one of forgetfulness at all - she looked guilty. Or at least uncomfortable. It's hard to imagine that she'd forget giving the ticket to Mary. I don't think she knows that Mary burned it...but it seems like Mrs. Hughes would at least remember having given that piece of evidence to Mary when they both thought that it was what proved his guilt.

Okay, I think that's all for now. I really AM enjoying this season more than last season, in spite of . . . certain parts. yes


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:37 pm

Lisa wrote:
See, if he would DO that, THEN I would be happy to have her with the doctor. But this other man openly professed his love for her, and is genuinely interested in the things that interest her. I don't think her life will have to be empty with him, because he deeply loves her. If the doctor would actually PROFESS his love for Isobel I'd be back in his corner again. (I really was rooting for him because I think they'd be a great couple.) But if he doesn't love her enough to openly tell her so, then no. No She's worth that effort...worth the risk.

You do make a good point.  The other guy DID proclaim his love to her.  But geesh, they really hadn't known each other long, I guess I wasn't really feelin' it when he said it?  It was sweet and all, but TRUE undying love??  I just don't know. At his age you just have to wonder if he's more about wanting a compatible woman he can settle down with.  I just don't believe SHE loves HIM...I believe she is settling, and that's sad.


Lisa wrote:
When you stop and think about how old Edith and Mary both are by now - they HAVE to be in their thirties, considering their ages when the show opened in 1912, and the current year - it's shocking and ridiculous that they're both still so full of themselves and give so little thought to anyone else around them. They should have matured by NOW.

Ugh, for real. Yikes  So think back to season 1---did anyone really care for EITHER one of them?  Well, Mary maybe by the END of season 1.  Then both she and Edith started growing on us (well some of us) in season 2 and 3.  Edith still by season 4 and Mary was hard to watch because of her depression and grief, but still, I did like her.  Then THIS season hits and I feel like we've backtracked straight back to season 1!!!  THAT should not have happened and the only way I can see it as it poor writing.  J/F should not have some of us truly disliking our core characters at this point in the series.  I think, once again, he has tackled too many storylines and hasn't done enough with the main ones---Edith's storyline has been really drawn out to the point of being redundant, so TOO much focus on Edith, and Mary's suitors, especially Blake, have not been delved into enough....at least not enough to make us like him more.  I was starting to like him and he had his redeeming qualities, but he seems as pompous as Mary now to me.  How are we supposed to care if he ends up with her (or who SHE ends up with) when everyone seems so....unlikable?  You know, I would think that if I lost a spouse (God forbid), I would always ask myself, "I wonder what he would think?  I wonder what he would think of my behavior?  I wonder what he would think of this person I am seeing?" (ahem, Tony's idea to get her into bed).  Wouldn't the memory of your first spouse, in this case Matthew who adored her and challenged her at the same time, wouldn't that memory help continue to form you into the person you're supposed to be? Help you in life by being a bit of your compass and conscience?  This Mary is unrecognizable to me.  Someone on the FB paged called her the B word, lol, and I have to say...I tend to agree at this point!  Yikes Now, if you think back to the scene where she and Blake were helping with the pigs?  That was a caring Mary (and a caring Blake) and I think JF should have focused on those sides of them more in this season.




Lisa wrote:
I'm really very disappointed that the writers chose to make Tony such a cad. He was such a nice man last season. I would have preferred to see him continue to be a gentleman. But we don't always get what we want. Wink  

I know what you mean.  But I find this plot more interesting really than two 'nice guys' trying to win her affection, but still...all those good looks gone to waste! Whistle  Wink

Lisa wrote:
You know, I wasn't very sure about her when she first joined the cast, but I've really grown to like her a lot.

I wasn't sure either.  But they have really beefed up her part and she is just so special.  I love how being outed in this way about her rocky past has only given her strength and has freed her to show what a good person she is.  



Lisa wrote:
Oh! The ticket! I'm pretty sure that Mrs. Hughes was lying, because the expression on her face didn't look like one of forgetfulness at all - she looked guilty. Or at least uncomfortable. It's hard to imagine that she'd forget giving the ticket to Mary. I don't think she knows that Mary burned it...but it seems like Mrs. Hughes would at least remember having given that piece of evidence to Mary when they both thought that it was what proved his guilt.

Oh gosh, well I'm embarrassed to say I'd forgotten ALL about that, that it had been given to Mary and that Mary had burned it!  Duh!!  But yeah, I doubt that Mrs. Hughes knows that Mary burned it either.  

Lisa wrote:
Okay, I think that's all for now. I really AM enjoying this season more than last season, in spite of . . . certain parts. yes

Oh, ME TOO, Lisa.Thumbsup   I LOVE this show, and am enjoying this season, but still have to question what JF is doing at every corner!!!! Yikes


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:46 pm

Amy wrote:
Aww, Lisa. Smiley Hug  I thought of you as I watched that scene.  cryB  I know it makes it even that much more difficult for you.  But I have watched this entire process without having gone through anything similar (other than losing daycare children and miscarrying, which is not the same thing, but I do know the feeling of the loss of a child), and I still feel more sad for Mrs. Drew than I can feel happy for Edith. It's more than I can muster.  I'll never forget an old Prime Time episode I watched too, of a child who had been adopted through an open adoption and was taken away at age 2 or 3. I remember how awful that scene was, and not with just the parents---the child was in hysterics.  I just think it was ridiculous to portray Marigold completely calm and content with Edith when it's not like she'd become comfortable to the point with her that she'd allow her to take her away from her mother, all while witnessing her mother's hysteria.  She's not a doll, which is what Edith (and the writer!) have made her out to be!  It upset me too that Mr. Drew didn't seem to care that much that his daughter was being taken from him too.  It would have helped Mrs. Drew to at least cope a little better knowing that her husband gave a crap that HIS daughter was being ripped from them too.  Good grief.

Smiley Hug Thank you, Amy.  

And YES, YES, YES...I wanted to pummel her husband. He should have been just as sympathetic to his WIFE as he was to Edith. His wife was the one who had sacrificed her time, gotten up in the night to feed this precious baby, comforted her, cared for her, nursed her when she was ill...He acted as if his only concern was Edith's happiness. What the heck??? Where is his concern for his own family?

Where Isobel is concerned, I do have to agree that I have a niggling feeling that she's settling. (Her saying that she feels like it's her last chance for an adventure.) I don't like that.  But I hope that I'm wrong. I'm just completely annoyed with the doctor that he's so blandly sitting back and doing NOTHING to make his feelings known. If he loves her, then for pity sake DO something about it! Frying pan TELL her. Spend time with her, PURSUE her. But no. He's just sitting back and watching, and saying that they're "Well-suited for one another."  ARGH!  (I told you I was annoyed with him. HeeHee )  
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:18 pm

Oh - one thing about Michael's "death"...It seemed to me that they left it rather open for him to possibly return later, because they found "Him...Or what was left of him". . . So to me, that leaves open the possibility of a mistaken-identity explanation later, and for him to reappear. I could be totally off, but I found it rather a vague handling.
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:27 pm

Lisa, my friend (Barbara) said the same thing...she thinks Michael will be returned.  Maybe not in one piece, but he may be back.  Also, her view on the whole Edith thing is that she could not have just shown up pregnant to the family, by a married man no less.  It was much more complicated than Sybil marrying beneath her station.  It was basically doomed from the beginning though and if she WAS going to run off with the baby (and tell people her husband was killed or something), then she should have done it THEN.  Her opportunity was gone, once she brought the other women/families into her life.  

Sorry to beat this whole thing with a stick, lol, but I had to mention that.  I do recognize that the whole family would have been shunned in this era. That said, unless she ran off from the very beginning, in my opinion the ONLY solution was for Marigold to be raised in an adoptive family.

Lisa, that "Gah!!" emoticon needs to become one of our regular emoticons!! Love it!! Laughing


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:22 pm

I definitely don't think Edith's decision was the best for the child, but I couldn't help feeling a little glad for Edith. The scene definitely was not believable with Marigold being so calm.

I had thought that the ticket had been burned, but I didn't remember that Mrs. Hughes gave it to Mary. I wonder why Mrs. Hughes wouldn't have said she gave it to Mary. You know it will come up at some point when Anna is talking to Mary. More drama to come.


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Lori wrote:
I definitely don't think Edith's decision was the best for the child, but I couldn't help feeling a little glad for Edith.

I can understand this, Lori.  I certainly don't want anyone to feel like they shouldn't be glad for her.  I feel like I came on a bit too strong. Yikes  I do that when I get all passionate about a show and a storyline! LOL!!  And it all is just my opinion. Smile

Lori wrote:
The scene definitely was not believable with Marigold being so calm.

Nope it wasn't, and clearly there was a reason for that---Julian Fellows IS trying to make it feel 'ok' that Edith did this, after all...had the child been screaming for her mother, I don't think anyone would be cheering for Edith, quite frankly.  But I 'get' that the plot is trying to be furthered along by making it so Edith gets 'a life'.  Seriously, I just wish they WOULD have made Mrs. Drew out to be a bad mother!  I could accept this a lot better!!


Lori wrote:
I had thought that the ticket had been burned, but I didn't remember that Mrs. Hughes gave it to Mary.  I wonder why Mrs. Hughes wouldn't have said she gave it to Mary.  You know it will come up at some point when Anna is talking to Mary.  More drama to come.


Right, that's what confused me.  What would be the reason for NOT telling Anna about giving it to Mary? Hmmm. scratchead


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:36 am

Amy wrote:


I can understand this, Lori.  I certainly don't want anyone to feel like they shouldn't be glad for her.  I feel like I came on a bit too strong. Yikes  I do that when I get all passionate about a show and a storyline! LOL!!  And it all is just my opinion. Smile

Whistle Yes, I feel like I did, too. I still hold the same opinion - and just as strongly...But I don't want others to feel like they can't have (and express) their opinions, whether they differ from mine or not. I keep reminding myself that this IS just a TV show. HeeHee

Oh, one more thing...I was quite surprised that Thomas was merely injecting himself with saline. As horrible as he looked, I thought it that he was injecting drugs - but apparently he looked so rough due to the infection.
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:05 am

Amy wrote:
Lisa wrote:
Give Edith a life! And NOT somebody else's.

You hit the nail on the head with that one statement. I want Edith to have a life, but she's made her bed already.

Lisa wrote:
.....try to build a friendship with the whole FAMILY, rather than just doting on one member. If she would do that, she could become an "aunt" to Marigold, and have a relationship with her throughout the years. It may not be what she wants, but we don't always get what we want in life.

Exactly!  I know the 'aunt' position was not what Edith wanted, but she'd made a life decision that required it to be so.  Unless she did the unthinkable, which she did...which was to take Marigold as hers and destroy the lives of the family. You know, it's pretty sad when it hits you that both Edith and Mary are completely self-centered people.  Yikes And it's REALLY sad when it hits you that Rose is the only one who isn't!  How did THAT happen?!?!


I have to admit to feeling more sympathetic to Edith's situation. She's grown up in the shadow of Mary, who is completely dreadful to her, and has been ignored by her parents most of her life. She's watched while Mary found love and happiness with Matthew and then she was jilted at the altar and publicly humiliated. She finds love with Michael, just to have that end in some odd way with no closure. Pressured to do the right thing and not be totally humiliated and further ostracized, she agrees to give up her child. I'm guessing, at that point she's holding out hope that Michael will be found alive and they can get married and have more children; so she can still see happiness in her future. But the moment Michael is declared dead, all that changes. There is no happiness on the horizon. And in the middle of her mourning, she is reminded again how Mary has moved on since Matthew's death and is now looking for a new man to share her life with; not to mention Mary is stringing along two men and flaunting it in front of the whole family.

Perhaps Edith didn't realize how hard it would be to let go of her child when she agreed to give her up, and as things have progressed in her life she realizes her only chance at happiness lies in forging a relationship with Marigold. The longer the situation with Michael remained unresolved, the more intense those feelings of needing Marigold became, which is why she brought Marigold closer to home.

If anyone is self-serving in this whole fiasco, it's Mr. Drew. He should have told his wife the truth from the start, but instead he chooses to secretly help the family to stay in their good graces. He's the one who destroyed his marriage and his family; not Edith. He had plenty of opportunity when his wife expressed concern over how much time Edith was spending with Marigold to tell her the truth. He chose to continue lying to his wife.

I agree that Edith made horrible choices along the way, but I don't see her acting self-centered. She is a disappointed, depressed person trying against all odds to carve a life out for herself when all life is handing her is a bowl full of lemons. Taking Marigold from the Drews is a bad decision, but over time Marigold and Edith could both heal from this. The problem is that the Drews are probably destroyed as a result, which is very sad.

What truly bugs me about this storyline is that the writers had a chance to lessen the tension between Mary and Edith by having Mary be more sympathetic toward her younger sister and they don't do it. Instead, they make her even nastier--flaunting how she is stringing along two men in front of everyone and saying how her new hairstyle makes her feel strong while Edith is probably at her weakest point. The sisters could have connected on a deeper level if Mary at least felt genuine concern or sympathy for Edith's loss if she could only remember what she was like when Matthew died.

I would truly love to see Edith take over Michael's publishing company and make a name for herself.


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:01 pm

I do understand your opinion, I just don't share it. And that's fine! We don't all have to agree. Part of my issue was that even Edith finding love. . . she found it with a married man. Sure there were extenuating circumstances, but he vowed "for better or for worse", and I didn't like it that we were supposed to be okay with him cheating on his wife, and Edith being part of an adulterous affair because his wife wasn't mentally right. No . . . I DO get why people want Edith to be happy, and I want her to be happy, too - I just feel that the writers seriously botched this.  

Oh, and YES! Cheryl, I couldn't agree more about the relationship between Mary & Edith. I'm very disappointed that we haven't seen ANY growth from either of them in that area. They lost one sister already, for pity sake! I hate it that there's truly NO friendship between them. This really could have been used to at least begin a relationship, and instead we see Mary being flippant and downright unkind about the whole thing. I didn't care for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:02 pm

Blue  I'm very sad about their big ol' dog. (Though in reality, once again they're really not paying attention to how many years have passed since the series opened.) I loved it that Robert and Cora have mended their relationship. I don't like to have them at odds for long. One thing that bothered me a lot was that Mary was so compassionate about the dog dying, and just last week she was completely heartless about Michael's death. I mean, I realize that he had been presumed dead, but still! He was a human being, her sister was obviously in love with him - she couldn't have mustered the same amount of compassion over his death as she could over the family dog's impending demise? And you all KNOW that I love animals. It really is like losing a family member - but I think you all know what I mean.

Now...I'm REALLY not trying to beat a dead horse here, but SERIOUSLY? They're going to ask the Drews to take Marigold BACK just long enough for them to take her again?? Cruel. Deeply. Cruel. And also not the smartest thing in the world...I would NOT put it past Mrs. Drew to run with Marigold. We're not talking about some occasional babysitter here - she feels the bond of a mother to this child. Put Marigold back in her arms, and there's not telling what she might do. I was also deeply annoyed with Edith with her snippy, "I don't think so" comment when her mother asked if she could see Marigold. GOOD GRIEF! I swear this woman has no heart. Of all people, SHE should understand Cora's desire to see this child. I realize that she was upset, but her mother came with an open mind and a forgiving spirit and all she wanted to do was see her grandchild. . . Which was really huge. For that era, for her to openly accept an illegitimate child as HER grandchild, it was a big thing! And Edith just coldly threw it back in her face. I don't like her any more than I like Mary this season.

Ah!! Did the Downton writers read our comments last week, Amy?? Wink It was nice to see some more interaction with the children. There wasn't a LOT, but it was nice to see some!

*happy sigh* I loved seeing Anna and Bates in their little home. That was such a cozy scene. I was a little surprised that both Anna and Bates were so unwilling to accept Baxter's apology and her offer of help. It seemed a little out of character for both of them - but especially for Anna. She's always so willing to forgive - even Thomas who has been quite the thorn in EVERYone's side.

Oh, gosh, the dinner scene! Those men were such jerks! I get it that they don't want their mother replaced, but goodness! They couldn't have at least been . . . civil in public? It was great to see the family standing up for Isobel, though. And it was so sweet to hear Violet speaking of the friendship that she and Isobel have. Violet looked so frail in that scene, though.  bawling

Hmm...I have quite a headache, so I'm trying to remember if I missed anything that I wanted to comment on...but I can't recall. I guess I'll have to think about it tomorrow. Wink  

All in all a very good episode!  
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:00 am

I think Anna and Bates would be more forgiving if Baxter would just come out and say everything. I'm not sure why she feels the need to protect Thomas. He certainly wasn't going to protect her when he was going to tell Cora about Baxter's jail time.

They are taking a big chance that Mrs. Drew will keep her mouth shut about Edith and Marigold. She's already told Cora, so what's to keep her from telling people in the village.


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:58 pm

Yeah, honestly I think it's pretty foolish of them to believe for a moment that it's going to be kept quiet. It's going to get out. It's just a matter of how and when.
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:25 pm

Lisa wrote:
Yeah, honestly I think it's pretty foolish of them to believe for a moment that it's going to be kept quiet. It's going to get out. It's just a matter of how and when.

I agree with you, Lisa & Lori....Mrs. Drew, keeping quiet???  Huh?? scratchead  I'm confused.  Are they going to pay her off to be quiet or something??  I mean, they're prepared to make HER and her husband look bad in the community too, that they couldn't afford the child and they couldn't 'handle' the child too??  I would be pretty darned upset if someone used ME like that to suit their own needs!  Mrs. Drew is getting used all over the place! Yikes

In fact, I was SO happy to at least get some validation about this, with Cora saying that "Mrs. Drew feels very used. And I have to say I agree with her."  Or something to that affect.  Thank you, Julian Fellows, for THAT much! Yikes  However, in the scene with the family and everything kind of coming undone when Mary asked why they just can't GIVE the family money to raise the child, Cora was more than ready to use Mrs. Drew herself by saying they couldn't handle the child.  So, yeah.  I do understand that they are looking for any way to make their plan work...it sounds like the best plan in their eyes, as far as keeping the child in Downton (and Edith in the show. HeeHee ).  Ugh.


Cheryl, you make a good case for Edith, you really do. I can see a lot of your points.  It's not that I'm totally unsympathetic to Edith's case as a whole, I am.  I'm just unsympathetic at the course of action she's taken because of it.  We view this differently. I feel sorry for her that she had to give the baby up at all. I'm sad for her that she had to make choices that were going to make her so miserable in the long run.  That is where my sympathy for her begins and ends. After that time, it should have been all about Marigold's happiness; what is best for Marigold.....a mother should love her child selflessly, and I'm afraid I can't say that about Edith.  As you had said, "she realizes her only chance at happiness in life is forging a relationship with Marigold", to me, snatching Marigold from the life and family she knows and loves IS self-serving.  Edith did that for Edith, for her happiness.  It's not enough for me to know that Marigold will heal (and she will, because Edith certainly won't be a 'bad mother')...but it just doesn't make this right. I am certain Marigold could have been a very happy child with the Drew's, and that there was a way of making Mrs. Drew agree to let Edith spend some time with her from time to time if she had only been privy to the information (which I agree, Mr. Drew shares some of the responsibility of that, of course).  But even if everything was out in the open and Mrs. Drew knew Edith was her biological mother, that arrangement would never have worked with Edith coming over as often as she was.


Lisa, I so agree about the cruelty of putting Marigold in the Drew's care again only to take her back again....not only for the family but for Marigold!  What ARE they thinking?!   thud  Ugh, whatever means to an end.... No I wonder if Mrs. Drew will do something drastic---I can kind of see them ending the finale with something like that....

And yes Lisa---Cora is quite the liberal in this series....she accepted Mary's premarital sex (not right at first but after a very short amount of time given the era), she then accepted Sybil and Tom much more quickly than Robert and without her, Robert would never have accepted them, I don't think.  And now she is accepting Edith's baby so quickly?  I can't remember, did Cora & Robert know that Gregson had a wife in an asylum?  I can't remember any of that.  But yeah, for this era, Cora is QUITE the liberal!! HeeHee



Cheryl wrote:
What truly bugs me about this storyline is that the writers had a chance to lessen the tension between Mary and Edith by having Mary be more sympathetic toward her younger sister and they don't do it. Instead, they make her even nastier--flaunting how she is stringing along two men in front of everyone and saying how her new hairstyle makes her feel strong while Edith is probably at her weakest point. The sisters could have connected on a deeper level if Mary at least felt genuine concern or sympathy for Edith's loss if she could only remember what she was like when Matthew died.

Exactly.  I really don't understand any of this---how Mary could have conveniently 'forgotten' how it felt when Matthew died?  I know it's not quite the same but if anything could have brought them at least slightly closer you would think it might have been that.  And now, you know Mary won't pay any attention to Marigold...she probably won't even let little William play with her!  I can so see Mary snubbing her, just because of class and because EDITH is fond of her.  That would be enough for Mary. Whistle  I DO feel badly for Edith having to put up with all of Mary's CRAP all these years.

And YES, Lisa...I agree about Mary and the dog situation.  Although, did you notice that when Robert told her that he was worried about Isis (as she was coming from the foyer) and she said something quickly and then just ran off upstairs!  I was like wait, what?  Her father is deeply concerned about his beloved dog and is walking toward her to speak with her about it and then she runs off after barely showing any concern whatsoever?  And then later we see this genuine sympathy she had for her father, when it's evident they WILL lose Isis.  I feel like Mary has an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other....and this season she is mainly listening to the devil and yet once in awhile we'll see glimpses of the Mary we liked while she was with Matthew.  We KNOW deep down she is still in there somewhere....but WHERE???? Yikes  I love that Violet put her in her place too...gave Mary something to think about.



Rarely does DA make me cry anymore...it's been ages.  BUT, there were a couple of moments actually that brought me to tears.  The scene between Violet and Mary, where she explains to Mary just what her friendship with Isobel means to her was just SO beautiful.  Maggie Smith is truly something---such a range; she can make me laugh like no other in one scene and then have me in tears in another.  And then the scene between Cora and Robert and Isis in the bed.  Oh my gosh, that did me in, having just lost our dog in June to cancer. You know, Cora has endeared herself to me in more ways this season than I would ever have thought possible!!  She has never been one of my favorites, but thank GOD Julian Fellows has endeared HER to me since he's made Edith & Mary my two LEAST favorite characters now. Yikes  I need more characters to look up to! LOL!

Speaking of which, Mrs. Baxter...I agree Lisa, I think it's a little out of character that Bates & Anna are being so unforgiving of her.  I know they're upset with having to deal with this, but good grief, Bates DID go to trial once for murder---it really wouldn't matter WHAT Baxter said, the police were going to find plenty to be suspicious of him.  And I feel like the Bates/Anna scene was so touching and yes---cozy!---in their little cottage...I feel like the writers are just pulling at our heartstrings only tot have the floor drop out from under them.  There's no way the green thing is over.

Ugh, and THEN the Blake/Tony story.  Good GRIEF can we put an end to this please???????  Here's the thing.  Tony would give up so easily that he would back off just after seeing Mary kiss Blake?  That's it, "Goodbye and have a nice life!"  Huh???  I really don't think that's going to happen.  But IF Mary is going to 'fall' for Blake, they really haven't built that up at all!  No meaningful long looks, no unintentional uncomfortable touches between them to 'suggest' this is more.  You know??  What has been done at all this season to make us WANT to see them together?  And yet, Mary did look flustered after he kissed her.  So what are we to think?  Whatever happens, I HOPE it's all put to rest next episode.  I DO hope they don't make Mary pregnant or something.  Knowing her she would just go to London and have it 'taken care of' anyway and I don't think I could deal with that.

Speaking of sweet looks and touches---that would be Baxter and Mosely. loveheart  I love them together and she is SO good for him.  I love the beautiful things she'll say to him, right out in the open in front of other people!  She is just so cool.

And finally, I really loved the 'scenery' in this episode....I love 'going' to the train station (although I always think of Matthew and Mary and how much I miss them), and I loved going to Bates and Anna's cottage and Mr. Mason's farmhouse.  I adore the castle, but it is so much fun seeing this other neat scenery as well. Love


There I go, long-winded as usual!  I can't believe the next episode is it!! Blue  I'm not ready for it to end!!! cryB


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:13 pm

That long post and I actually forgot to mention a couple of things. Yikes

First off, my heart broke for poor Isobel in that dinner scene. Lord Merton's sons were just awful---BOTH of them, but especially the one, of course. But I DO like Lord Merton. Yes, I want Isobel with the doctor but I will be sad for him, if she breaks it off with him.

The other thing....are we really going to lose Tom?? I love Tom!! Granted, this season he has been on the boring side (through no fault of his own, ahem) but I would so love to SEE him end up with a NICE woman who will be perfect for him AND Sibby!! I just really hate to see him go. No


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:41 pm

My only heartbreak about this episode is about Isis suffering with cancer. Why did this have to happen this week? Last Saturday we had a family meeting about mom's health and how poorly she was doing last week. She had been contacted by the palliative care workers and started sharing her final wishes. And then on Sunday we see this. Ugh, having this happen on my hour long release from reality was very upsetting.
Thankfully, and by the awesome Grace of God, she is doing much better this week and her second chemo treatment is scheduled for this Friday. But, we are still not in the palliative clear, if this treatment does nothing, then there is nothing left to be done.


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:58 pm

Aww Marilyn, I am so sorry. No And I know what you mean---Downton is such a great escape from reality and being reminded of 'real life stuff' is just so unsettling. I am praying for your mom and your family...I know this is sheer agony for all of you.


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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Smiley Hug {{{Marilyn}}}
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PostSubject: Re: Downton Abbey SPOILER THREAD   Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:18 pm

I can't really add much to your comments except to agree with both of you about the ridiculous situations this season. Is Mr. Drew an idiot? Does he really not realize how his actions will continue to negatively impact his family? I see Mrs. Drew running off with Marigold too. The family is totally abusing Mr. Drew's loyalty.

The only person in the family who isn't driving me nuts this season is Rose. She's still annoying, but her charity work and her relationship with Atticus makes her much more tolerable. I truly hope they marry her off and she disappears.

It's hard to believe next week is the last episode. I wonder what kind of cliffhanger we will be dealing with this time.


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